I thought this was very interesting to learn that the reason Milgram conducted his study was to figure out why the German people allowed the extermination of the Jews. The Jews may have had a lower status, but that still should not have allowed the Germans to kill so many of them.This study is really amazing. I cannot believe that about 65% of the people studied went all the way to the very end of the voltage. It amazes me how people readily obey authority figures. It also fascinates me that the "teachers" did not become psychologically scarred from doing what they thought was killing the "learners".
I completely agree. I wonder if this study is a anthropocentric, it only used 40 male participants. I imagine that including women in the experiment could significantly affect the results. But alas we'll never know, and I certainly hope, this experiment definitive encroaches on some human rights. Karma001
I have a hard time believing that 65% of the men went all the way to the end of the shock board. I want that same experiment to take place but with women doing the shocking or even men shocking women and see what the results would be. Men hurting other men is our human nature. TooTall001
It also shocked me at first to learn that 65% of the participants delivered the shocks all the way down the board. After thinking about it while, I am actually surprised the number was not higher. I think in today’s world if this experiment was conducted the percentage would be higher. People in today’s society I feel are compliant with orders so long as they are perceived as legitimate. It is scary to think if you were one of the subjects in the study. Would you have gone all the way down the board? SVT001.
swimmer001, The Jews weren't hated because they were the lower class, they were the ones in the upper class, that was why the poor hated them.
Karma001, I don't think anthropocentric was the word you were looking for. Would Androcentric fit more aptly?
I was not surprised at all of the results. My senior year in high school I was a captain on the football team and captain of the wrestling team. Some of the things those guys would do if I told them to would make you people gag. There are few people who will question authority, even if it may be the first responsibility of every citizen. FreedomUnderGod001
I think obedience a great example for Milgrim to use about the Holocaust. I'm sure it was similar involving slavery. Now my next question is, how long does it take for someone to finally step in a stand up? Regardless of the consequences, who will be the first to challenge that authority? You also make a great point swimmer001. I don't think many of the teachers really know how big of challenge this is to an individual. At some point that learner will become responsible for there own actions, regardless of what authority has demanded them to do. Taylojj2
I’m not surprised by the abandonment of moral responsibility observed in Milgram's experiment; I am shocked by the egregious acts one human will do to another. Beyond my emotional reactions, I wonder if the results from this experiment demonstrates human response to authority as animalistic or metaphysical. Should we conclude from this experiment that human beings have a tendency to ignore personal, moral motivations to obey authority figures, which (in some way) may promote the survival of a small social group? Or should we conclude that humanity have a tendency towards corruption which only needs prompting? The former makes more sense due to the stressed behavior of the participants. Karma001.
I agree, I was not shocked that Milgram's study proved that human have a lack for moral responsibility. I also agree that I was surprised humans will go that extreme to follow rules from their authorities, even when they know what they are doing is wrong. Hopefully, this experiment and others like this will help humans expand our knowledge on moral judgment. Toby001
The only thing one can conclude from this study is that 65% of all participants would continue shocking with the prompt of an authority figure. Any other kind moral philosophizing is not conclusive. FreedomUnderGod001
I agree with you that we are not in control of our moral responsibility. But for anyone when their is a person higher than you giving some type of punishment then thats when our moral responsibilty is abandoned. But I also do not understand how one could put another through pain even if this was for an experiment or not. The corruption of this experiment just shows who some people realy are. Summer001
It is hard to watch and know that we as humans are our worst enemies. During Milgram's experiment I was surprised to see that a teacher was unable to stop shocking the victim because, teachers occupation is to improve the human life through education. However, overall I am not surprised that the people delivering the shocks kept proceeding because human are born to follow directions from their higher authorities. Therefore, in some way I believe that the majority of the Nazis in Germany followed Hitler's orders out of fear knowing that he could kill them or their families. I hope that if I was participating in Milgram's experiment that I would have had enough courage to stop proceeding. Toby001
I couldn't find where they found these teachers exactly. What was their exact profession? Fear could play a big part in why we follow authority we don't want to deal with whatever consequences that might come. WonderWoman001
I agree that fear can play a big part in why we follow higher authority, but it's no excuse in this case. The person in charge of the experiment in no way threatens the subjects of the experiment; he simply requests that the subject continue on with the experiment. I really don't understand why the subjects of this experiment felt so torn. It seems like the social norm of not hurting other people was just not strong enough to really make them stop what they were doing. thestig001
Wonderwoman001, The "teachers" used in the study weren't actually teachers, they were assigned the teacher status for the purposes of the experiment.
Toby001, A perfect example of what you are talking about with how most Germans were afraid of Hitler's power would be General Rommel. Studying him reveals that he was a moral man incapable of escaping from an immoral position. He was a hero to the general public, even leaders of Allied countries praising him. Hitler wanted him dead, but couldn't publicly order his death, so he told Rommel that he was to kill himself in return for the promised safety of his family. FreedomUnderGod001
I completely got chills when watching this. I want to hope that people would stand up against authority in times like these but I'm curious as to why they do not. Yes in our society people in general don't like to not fit in or do what everyone is doing. But what if they were justifying it to themselves because they were told they were not responsible if something were to happen to the learner. But deep down they had to know that wasn't right as in you are always responsible for your own personal actions and choices. Milgram showed us how deep our society/people are willing to put others and themselves at risk to be compliant. As a society why are we afraid to stand up against authority? It comes down to why do we think authority figures are "right" and if we stand up against them we are "wrong". WonderWoman001
I'm really not surprised by the blind behavior and obedience to authority. Groups such as the Nazis are in extreme but even the military or gang life or even an older brother telling a younger brother to do something. I believe that people are obedient naturally as Milgram's experiment shows. I've witnessed car accidents that people drive right past. Before the police got there some people stopped to help but it wasn't the initial people that actually saw the accident. So they weren't helpful when the police did show up to find out what happened. The people that did could have stopped to help. TooTall001
How are you not suprised? I was shocked (no pun intended), by the blind obedience that was displayed. The motivation behind such blindness is appalling to me. I want to understand it, if only to disprove, in my mind that all people are like this. It's quite a frightening thought to me. Arizona001
Arizona001, not all people are like this, the distinction is that statistically most people are like this. Human beings are animals after all. Do you think animals like Dogs developed their ability to submit to authority just because they are Dogs? The only difference between us and them is that we have metacogniscience. FreedomUnderGod001
I agree with you, I am not surprised at all. It is normal for people to be this darn obedient, especially the background I come from. I have seen how far obedience can take, usually it is positive but surprisingly sometimes it can get bad. khush001
I am bothered by the fact that Milgram's experiment obviously made the subjects very uncomfortable and "torn" but that most of them ultimately submitted to the higher authority of the scientist who was the "expert" and who assumed responsibility. It bothers me that people clearly felt that something was not quite right, but lacked the courage or sense of a greater mores to stand up and oppose the higher authority. The weirdest thing to me is that the subjects were not being forced or threatened to continue onwards with the experiment, they were only being verbally asked/instructed to. I wonder, does this tendency we have to blindly obey the authority of an "expert" have something to do with social lag or that fact that we live in a postindustrial society where technology (that not everyone understands) reigns supreme? thestig001
What was truly disturbing was the man who was laughing spontaneously after the subject cried out in pain. Who socialized that man? Is that true human nature when proper nurturing is absent. No Bueno. Packers001
This video is extremely interesting to watch. I find that this study that Milgram did shows a lot about human obedience. The video displayed actual footage from the obedience study. I think the most interesting part of the study was 65% of the participants made it all the way down the shock board. In the video it showed a man stating he was not going to be responsible for the safety of the test subject. He was basically saying he was done giving shocks. When Milgram stated he was in charge of the safety the man continued to deliver shocks. It is very scary to think how much authority figures have in society. I have wondered myself why and how people could have committed horrible acts during WW2. This study was an interesting insight to the power of authority. SVT001.
Yes, I agree that it was cool to see footage from the actual study. It is a scary thought to think about how much authority authority figures have in our society. Do we need to take some of that authority away, or is it fine? I honestly do not know. It is just sad to think that most people will blindly follow a leader they think has authority. swimmer001
This clip made me very, very uncomfortable. The obedience that these people had to an authority figure was amazing to watch. They didn’t profit from shocking people, and they were not made to feel superior to the shocked people, but they still went against their own conscience. This whole groupthink thing is one that I feel needs more study and explanation because it is really disconcerting to think that it applies across the spectrum of people. Ordinary people from across the globe who could be talked into going against their conscience and hurting others, is an uneasy reality for me to grasp and consider. Arizona001
Earlier in the thread I noticed people speculating about how women would react in the same situation. Instead of wondering about the imaginary results, I decided to take about 3 hours (10 minutes) to scour the internet (google) for research on the subject of obedience to authority. Milgram's study isn't a "one hit wonder" type of study. We call those studies bad science. The experiment he conducted was very repeatable, and has been multiple times. Across nationalities the results have been shown to be statistically insignificant in their differences, as has across socioeconomic backgrounds. When they started introducing women into the research is where it became interesting. A study similar to Milgram's produced the same distribution across men, but with females it resulted in a 100% obedience rate. Additionally, Milgram had conducted a study including females with similar results but it was not officially published. Additional information includes the way in with the roughly 40% of the men who disobeyed did so. Only about 50% of those men actually confronted the experiment conductor, with the other 50% lying about the results of whether or not the subject learned. This means that overall, 90% of the population DID NOT directly disobey authority. When research as extensive as these authority studies show these kinds of results, the only way to disprove them is to conduct more studies. Although if the pattern holds, we will see the same results every time. FreedomUnderGod001
The study results are disappointing but not a surprise. I do however disagree with the student, at the end, who believes the study would have the same results if performed today. I think the percentage would be much lower, regarding the 65%. This study was performed in the 1961, and society believed in obedience and structure. My grandparents did things because that's what they "were suppose to do", rather than what they wanted to do. There was respect for authority, even if it was misplaced respect. However, today we are more skeptical. We are less likely to respect authority, even when its safe to do so. I think people would have walked right out of this study in 2015. Packers001
If anything we would be more inclined towards obeying authority today, considering the massive expansion of government that we've recently had, considering the narrative that we are willing to accept from the media, considering the general mindset of the American mind where the first place to go to solve a societal problem is the government. We are encouraging the federalization of all of our industries yet you still think people would just walk out of an authoritarian situation? Some of our politicians have said absolutely absurd things and the general population are just willing to accept it as fact. There used to be a common saying "Politicians always lie" but how often do you hear that brandied about nowadays? The idea of even going to college is submitting your intellectual authority over to an organization that controls whether or not other people perceive you as "educated". It is all nice and dandy to theorize that we live in a more enlightened society than those before us, but we are all human at the end of the day. In fact, to point out the absurdity of your claim, there was a replication of the Milgram experiment in 2009 by Professor Jerry M. Burger of Santa Clara University and found no statistical significance in the difference between his results and Milgram's. It's nice to think of ourselves as different people, but human behavior stays consistent throughout time. FreedomUnderGod001
Assuming he still teaches at Santa Clara, his email is jburger@scu.edu if you are interested in whether or not he actually replicated the study correctly. Although I would suggest reading his actual paper: http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/amp-64-1-1.pdf Before making any assumptions. FreedomUnderGod001
I would have to agree with you that people would be way more inclined to obeying authority if this test was done today, we have people that have been being desensitized by mass media more in the last few decades than ever. grateful001
This study was really interesting, took me at shock at first but the more I think about it, it seems very natural. Authorities in our society play a very big role, we have airport authorities who think they have right to talk the way they want to. Even if its rude, people at the airport are baring the behavior because they are authorized. People think people with authorities have the ultimate knowledge of what they are doing and it is a very natural thing for people to follow them, regardless of the consequences which follows back. khush001
I agree with you when you said that it "seems very natural". Obedience is something that we do everyday and we don't even realize it. I like the example you used about the airport because it is one of the many examples of humans obeying people whom they believe to be in an authoritative role, when in reality someone just gave them the title and they are no more powerful than you or I. glassonion001
Although we are taught obedience as a rule, I totally disagree with your analogy of this situation. Authorities are allowed to act rude, and with disregard, but there is nothing natural about shocking someone over and over, laughing or even listening to their screams and contributing to their pain, in the name of science. This to me is more sadistic in nature, not purely scientific . Rosebudd001
Milgrams study was interesting but also harsh too. To learn milgrim thought a person was to be punished which i do belive to an extent. if a person does not decide to do their homework then thier should be some type of punishment until that child does their homework on a regular basis. But when it comes to a painful punishment, this is not always the best way to punish someone. A behavior should be reinforced not punished until the outcome becomes positive. He is correct, obediance is how society works because we all need to act in a positive manner in public. I thought it was interesting that over halg went all the way to the end in this experiment, because the pain became unbearable near the end. But when a person is put in a situation like this their responsibility becomes the priority. Summer001
I don't remember if I was surprised by the results the first time I heard about this experiment in my psych class, but it is fascinating nonetheless. I don't think this experiment should be used to say that the Nazi's were not such bad people, but instead it shows us that they were acting as humans by obeying the higher command. I know in my life I have done some unethical things because I was being pushed by a peer or someone that I felt the need to impress. My overall take is what the student said at the end of the clip and that is "people are just inherently obedient" glassonion001
Millgram's experiment was close to psycopathic in nature. It definately had undertones of the Nazi experiments. The thought that he used other regular people to give the shocks, and they actually did it, and even encouraged the subject to continue through knowing that it will cause severe pain is shocking. Some of the testers were mocking and laughing at the subjects getting zapped. Kind of the same of peer pressure-people tend to ditch the person that's the underdog. That goes to say that it can also be said of a bully picking on someone, but bystanders standing and laughing or egging it on, because that is the consensus of the group ;all being inherently obedient. Rosebudd001
I don't believe that Milgram meant his experiments to be this bad, just that they turned out much worse than he expected. Many of the test subjects did voice concerns and complained that they didn't want to go on. They didn't know why they were going on only that they had to. That someone who was better than them said it was ok. Delta001
as unethical as this study may have been I still find it fascinating the work that Millgrams showed here. I wish I could say people are not robots and are guided by their own self consciousness but Millgram study proves other wise, test subjects were laughing at the pain they thought they were inflicting on others. I can't imaging doing this but I can see it, when I have a job to do i try the be a good worker and that means being obedient and following rules without asking question or questioning authority. grateful001
I agree with you it really shows that most of us are followers and not leaders. then like you said we must be obedient in so much if our live at school, work, in public even sometimes in our own house we have to be obedient player001
I really like millgram's study I have even watched a video about this study reacted. This study really shows how a lot of people will just follow people with power. I think it has to do with how we grow up and was raised to do what we are told.We were told not to talk back to people over use to do what they say or else we would get in trouble. So it goes back in to norms a little bit in my opinion. player001
This video shows perfectly how people are able to do things that they wouldn't otherwise if only because someone of "higher" authority would tell them to. They could rationalize that they were just following orders even if they were hurting other people. This is why I can appreciate stories like from the movie Unbroken where a man is prisoner in a Japanese war prisoner camp. He has horrible things done to him but afterwards when the war is over most of the prison guards search out their old prisoner and say sorry. That they don't know why they did what they did only that it was expected of them and they were following orders. Delta001
I think this was something we all could benefit from if looking at the videos. I don't many of really know how obedient we can be. When authority is giving an order it's almost the person's fear of going against the majority. This is where ethics or morals could come a bit conflicted. Milgrim believed it necessary to have obedience I'd necessary but there is a downside to it as well. There was a state of conflict, but in the end authority would the person to follow through. In the video, I even saw a man willing to do more as long as the responsibility of killing older man was put on to someone else. I can even sat the same has happened to me in bad decisions growing up. Taylojj2
Stanley Milgram was a Psychologists that studied human behavior. The experiments that he and others conducted were controversial and may not ever be done again. He studied the Nazis and how they could be so inhuman. Obedience one of Milgram’s studies to teach people to learn from their mistake. The shock generator using shocks to discipline, when an incorrect answer is given a shock is given. Milgram felt like obedience was the right discipline to give. Many psychologist were subject to this experiment and some would laugh hysterically. I feel as if when someone is under that much stress they are bound to answer questions wrong and shocking someone would not make the situation better or make them answer questions correctly. You can tell in the video the man giving the shocks wanted to stop but he was told to continue which he did whether he kill the man or not. LAWS001
I thought this was very interesting to learn that the reason Milgram conducted his study was to figure out why the German people allowed the extermination of the Jews. The Jews may have had a lower status, but that still should not have allowed the Germans to kill so many of them.This study is really amazing. I cannot believe that about 65% of the people studied went all the way to the very end of the voltage. It amazes me how people readily obey authority figures. It also fascinates me that the "teachers" did not become psychologically scarred from doing what they thought was killing the "learners".
ReplyDeleteThis post was made by swimmer001.
DeleteI completely agree. I wonder if this study is a anthropocentric, it only used 40 male participants. I imagine that including women in the experiment could significantly affect the results. But alas we'll never know, and I certainly hope, this experiment definitive encroaches on some human rights. Karma001
DeleteI have a hard time believing that 65% of the men went all the way to the end of the shock board. I want that same experiment to take place but with women doing the shocking or even men shocking women and see what the results would be. Men hurting other men is our human nature. TooTall001
DeleteIt also shocked me at first to learn that 65% of the participants delivered the shocks all the way down the board. After thinking about it while, I am actually surprised the number was not higher. I think in today’s world if this experiment was conducted the percentage would be higher. People in today’s society I feel are compliant with orders so long as they are perceived as legitimate. It is scary to think if you were one of the subjects in the study. Would you have gone all the way down the board? SVT001.
Deleteswimmer001, The Jews weren't hated because they were the lower class, they were the ones in the upper class, that was why the poor hated them.
DeleteKarma001, I don't think anthropocentric was the word you were looking for. Would Androcentric fit more aptly?
I was not surprised at all of the results. My senior year in high school I was a captain on the football team and captain of the wrestling team. Some of the things those guys would do if I told them to would make you people gag. There are few people who will question authority, even if it may be the first responsibility of every citizen. FreedomUnderGod001
I think obedience a great example for Milgrim to use about the Holocaust. I'm sure it was similar involving slavery. Now my next question is, how long does it take for someone to finally step in a stand up? Regardless of the consequences, who will be the first to challenge that authority? You also make a great point swimmer001. I don't think many of the teachers really know how big of challenge this is to an individual. At some point that learner will become responsible for there own actions, regardless of what authority has demanded them to do. Taylojj2
DeleteI’m not surprised by the abandonment of moral responsibility observed in Milgram's experiment; I am shocked by the egregious acts one human will do to another. Beyond my emotional reactions, I wonder if the results from this experiment demonstrates human response to authority as animalistic or metaphysical. Should we conclude from this experiment that human beings have a tendency to ignore personal, moral motivations to obey authority figures, which (in some way) may promote the survival of a small social group? Or should we conclude that humanity have a tendency towards corruption which only needs prompting? The former makes more sense due to the stressed behavior of the participants. Karma001.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I was not shocked that Milgram's study proved that human have a lack for moral responsibility. I also agree that I was surprised humans will go that extreme to follow rules from their authorities, even when they know what they are doing is wrong. Hopefully, this experiment and others like this will help humans expand our knowledge on moral judgment. Toby001
DeleteThe only thing one can conclude from this study is that 65% of all participants would continue shocking with the prompt of an authority figure. Any other kind moral philosophizing is not conclusive. FreedomUnderGod001
DeleteI agree with you that we are not in control of our moral responsibility. But for anyone when their is a person higher than you giving some type of punishment then thats when our moral responsibilty is abandoned. But I also do not understand how one could put another through pain even if this was for an experiment or not. The corruption of this experiment just shows who some people realy are.
DeleteSummer001
It is hard to watch and know that we as humans are our worst enemies. During Milgram's experiment I was surprised to see that a teacher was unable to stop shocking the victim because, teachers occupation is to improve the human life through education. However, overall I am not surprised that the people delivering the shocks kept proceeding because human are born to follow directions from their higher authorities. Therefore, in some way I believe that the majority of the Nazis in Germany followed Hitler's orders out of fear knowing that he could kill them or their families. I hope that if I was participating in Milgram's experiment that I would have had enough courage to stop proceeding. Toby001
ReplyDeleteI couldn't find where they found these teachers exactly. What was their exact profession? Fear could play a big part in why we follow authority we don't want to deal with whatever consequences that might come. WonderWoman001
DeleteI agree that fear can play a big part in why we follow higher authority, but it's no excuse in this case. The person in charge of the experiment in no way threatens the subjects of the experiment; he simply requests that the subject continue on with the experiment. I really don't understand why the subjects of this experiment felt so torn. It seems like the social norm of not hurting other people was just not strong enough to really make them stop what they were doing.
Deletethestig001
Wonderwoman001, The "teachers" used in the study weren't actually teachers, they were assigned the teacher status for the purposes of the experiment.
DeleteToby001, A perfect example of what you are talking about with how most Germans were afraid of Hitler's power would be General Rommel. Studying him reveals that he was a moral man incapable of escaping from an immoral position. He was a hero to the general public, even leaders of Allied countries praising him. Hitler wanted him dead, but couldn't publicly order his death, so he told Rommel that he was to kill himself in return for the promised safety of his family. FreedomUnderGod001
I completely got chills when watching this. I want to hope that people would stand up against authority in times like these but I'm curious as to why they do not. Yes in our society people in general don't like to not fit in or do what everyone is doing. But what if they were justifying it to themselves because they were told they were not responsible if something were to happen to the learner. But deep down they had to know that wasn't right as in you are always responsible for your own personal actions and choices. Milgram showed us how deep our society/people are willing to put others and themselves at risk to be compliant. As a society why are we afraid to stand up against authority? It comes down to why do we think authority figures are "right" and if we stand up against them we are "wrong". WonderWoman001
ReplyDeleteI'm really not surprised by the blind behavior and obedience to authority. Groups such as the Nazis are in extreme but even the military or gang life or even an older brother telling a younger brother to do something. I believe that people are obedient naturally as Milgram's experiment shows. I've witnessed car accidents that people drive right past. Before the police got there some people stopped to help but it wasn't the initial people that actually saw the accident. So they weren't helpful when the police did show up to find out what happened. The people that did could have stopped to help. TooTall001
ReplyDeleteHow are you not suprised? I was shocked (no pun intended), by the blind obedience that was displayed. The motivation behind such blindness is appalling to me. I want to understand it, if only to disprove, in my mind that all people are like this. It's quite a frightening thought to me. Arizona001
DeleteArizona001, not all people are like this, the distinction is that statistically most people are like this. Human beings are animals after all. Do you think animals like Dogs developed their ability to submit to authority just because they are Dogs? The only difference between us and them is that we have metacogniscience. FreedomUnderGod001
DeleteI agree with you, I am not surprised at all. It is normal for people to be this darn obedient, especially the background I come from. I have seen how far obedience can take, usually it is positive but surprisingly sometimes it can get bad.
Deletekhush001
I am bothered by the fact that Milgram's experiment obviously made the subjects very uncomfortable and "torn" but that most of them ultimately submitted to the higher authority of the scientist who was the "expert" and who assumed responsibility. It bothers me that people clearly felt that something was not quite right, but lacked the courage or sense of a greater mores to stand up and oppose the higher authority. The weirdest thing to me is that the subjects were not being forced or threatened to continue onwards with the experiment, they were only being verbally asked/instructed to. I wonder, does this tendency we have to blindly obey the authority of an "expert" have something to do with social lag or that fact that we live in a postindustrial society where technology (that not everyone understands) reigns supreme?
ReplyDeletethestig001
What was truly disturbing was the man who was laughing spontaneously after the subject cried out in pain. Who socialized that man? Is that true human nature when proper nurturing is absent. No Bueno. Packers001
DeleteThis video is extremely interesting to watch. I find that this study that Milgram did shows a lot about human obedience. The video displayed actual footage from the obedience study. I think the most interesting part of the study was 65% of the participants made it all the way down the shock board. In the video it showed a man stating he was not going to be responsible for the safety of the test subject. He was basically saying he was done giving shocks. When Milgram stated he was in charge of the safety the man continued to deliver shocks. It is very scary to think how much authority figures have in society. I have wondered myself why and how people could have committed horrible acts during WW2. This study was an interesting insight to the power of authority. SVT001.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree that it was cool to see footage from the actual study. It is a scary thought to think about how much authority authority figures have in our society. Do we need to take some of that authority away, or is it fine? I honestly do not know. It is just sad to think that most people will blindly follow a leader they think has authority.
Deleteswimmer001
This clip made me very, very uncomfortable. The obedience that these people had to an authority figure was amazing to watch. They didn’t profit from shocking people, and they were not made to feel superior to the shocked people, but they still went against their own conscience. This whole groupthink thing is one that I feel needs more study and explanation because it is really disconcerting to think that it applies across the spectrum of people. Ordinary people from across the globe who could be talked into going against their conscience and hurting others, is an uneasy reality for me to grasp and consider. Arizona001
ReplyDeleteEarlier in the thread I noticed people speculating about how women would react in the same situation. Instead of wondering about the imaginary results, I decided to take about 3 hours (10 minutes) to scour the internet (google) for research on the subject of obedience to authority. Milgram's study isn't a "one hit wonder" type of study. We call those studies bad science. The experiment he conducted was very repeatable, and has been multiple times. Across nationalities the results have been shown to be statistically insignificant in their differences, as has across socioeconomic backgrounds. When they started introducing women into the research is where it became interesting. A study similar to Milgram's produced the same distribution across men, but with females it resulted in a 100% obedience rate. Additionally, Milgram had conducted a study including females with similar results but it was not officially published. Additional information includes the way in with the roughly 40% of the men who disobeyed did so. Only about 50% of those men actually confronted the experiment conductor, with the other 50% lying about the results of whether or not the subject learned. This means that overall, 90% of the population DID NOT directly disobey authority. When research as extensive as these authority studies show these kinds of results, the only way to disprove them is to conduct more studies. Although if the pattern holds, we will see the same results every time. FreedomUnderGod001
ReplyDeleteThe study results are disappointing but not a surprise. I do however disagree with the student, at the end, who believes the study would have the same results if performed today. I think the percentage would be much lower, regarding the 65%. This study was performed in the 1961, and society believed in obedience and structure. My grandparents did things because that's what they "were suppose to do", rather than what they wanted to do. There was respect for authority, even if it was misplaced respect. However, today we are more skeptical. We are less likely to respect authority, even when its safe to do so. I think people would have walked right out of this study in 2015. Packers001
ReplyDeleteIf anything we would be more inclined towards obeying authority today, considering the massive expansion of government that we've recently had, considering the narrative that we are willing to accept from the media, considering the general mindset of the American mind where the first place to go to solve a societal problem is the government. We are encouraging the federalization of all of our industries yet you still think people would just walk out of an authoritarian situation? Some of our politicians have said absolutely absurd things and the general population are just willing to accept it as fact. There used to be a common saying "Politicians always lie" but how often do you hear that brandied about nowadays? The idea of even going to college is submitting your intellectual authority over to an organization that controls whether or not other people perceive you as "educated". It is all nice and dandy to theorize that we live in a more enlightened society than those before us, but we are all human at the end of the day. In fact, to point out the absurdity of your claim, there was a replication of the Milgram experiment in 2009 by Professor Jerry M. Burger of Santa Clara University and found no statistical significance in the difference between his results and Milgram's. It's nice to think of ourselves as different people, but human behavior stays consistent throughout time. FreedomUnderGod001
DeleteAssuming he still teaches at Santa Clara, his email is jburger@scu.edu if you are interested in whether or not he actually replicated the study correctly. Although I would suggest reading his actual paper: http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/amp-64-1-1.pdf
DeleteBefore making any assumptions. FreedomUnderGod001
I would have to agree with you that people would be way more inclined to obeying authority if this test was done today, we have people that have been being desensitized by mass media more in the last few decades than ever.
Deletegrateful001
This study was really interesting, took me at shock at first but the more I think about it, it seems very natural. Authorities in our society play a very big role, we have airport authorities who think they have right to talk the way they want to. Even if its rude, people at the airport are baring the behavior because they are authorized. People think people with authorities have the ultimate knowledge of what they are doing and it is a very natural thing for people to follow them, regardless of the consequences which follows back. khush001
ReplyDeleteI agree with you when you said that it "seems very natural". Obedience is something that we do everyday and we don't even realize it. I like the example you used about the airport because it is one of the many examples of humans obeying people whom they believe to be in an authoritative role, when in reality someone just gave them the title and they are no more powerful than you or I. glassonion001
DeleteAlthough we are taught obedience as a rule, I totally disagree with your analogy of this situation. Authorities are allowed to act rude, and with disregard, but there is nothing natural about shocking someone over and over, laughing or even listening to their screams and contributing to their pain, in the name of science. This to me is more sadistic in nature, not purely scientific . Rosebudd001
DeleteMilgrams study was interesting but also harsh too. To learn milgrim thought a person was to be punished which i do belive to an extent. if a person does not decide to do their homework then thier should be some type of punishment until that child does their homework on a regular basis. But when it comes to a painful punishment, this is not always the best way to punish someone. A behavior should be reinforced not punished until the outcome becomes positive. He is correct, obediance is how society works because we all need to act in a positive manner in public. I thought it was interesting that over halg went all the way to the end in this experiment, because the pain became unbearable near the end. But when a person is put in a situation like this their responsibility becomes the priority.
ReplyDeleteSummer001
I don't remember if I was surprised by the results the first time I heard about this experiment in my psych class, but it is fascinating nonetheless. I don't think this experiment should be used to say that the Nazi's were not such bad people, but instead it shows us that they were acting as humans by obeying the higher command. I know in my life I have done some unethical things because I was being pushed by a peer or someone that I felt the need to impress. My overall take is what the student said at the end of the clip and that is "people are just inherently obedient" glassonion001
ReplyDeleteMillgram's experiment was close to psycopathic in nature. It definately had undertones of the Nazi experiments. The thought that he used other regular people to give the shocks, and they actually did it, and even encouraged the subject to continue through knowing that it will cause severe pain is shocking. Some of the testers were mocking and laughing at the subjects getting zapped. Kind of the same of peer pressure-people tend to ditch the person that's the underdog. That goes to say that it can also be said of a bully picking on someone, but bystanders standing and laughing or egging it on, because that is the consensus of the group ;all being inherently obedient. Rosebudd001
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that Milgram meant his experiments to be this bad, just that they turned out much worse than he expected. Many of the test subjects did voice concerns and complained that they didn't want to go on. They didn't know why they were going on only that they had to. That someone who was better than them said it was ok.
DeleteDelta001
as unethical as this study may have been I still find it fascinating the work that Millgrams showed here. I wish I could say people are not robots and are guided by their own self consciousness but Millgram study proves other wise, test subjects were laughing at the pain they thought they were inflicting on others. I can't imaging doing this but I can see it, when I have a job to do i try the be a good worker and that means being obedient and following rules without asking question or questioning authority.
ReplyDeletegrateful001
I agree with you it really shows that most of us are followers and not leaders. then like you said we must be obedient in so much if our live at school, work, in public even sometimes in our own house we have to be obedient player001
DeleteI really like millgram's study I have even watched a video about this study reacted. This study really shows how a lot of people will just follow people with power. I think it has to do with how we grow up and was raised to do what we are told.We were told not to talk back to people over use to do what they say or else we would get in trouble. So it goes back in to norms a little bit in my opinion. player001
ReplyDeleteThis video shows perfectly how people are able to do things that they wouldn't otherwise if only because someone of "higher" authority would tell them to. They could rationalize that they were just following orders even if they were hurting other people. This is why I can appreciate stories like from the movie Unbroken where a man is prisoner in a Japanese war prisoner camp. He has horrible things done to him but afterwards when the war is over most of the prison guards search out their old prisoner and say sorry. That they don't know why they did what they did only that it was expected of them and they were following orders.
ReplyDeleteDelta001
I think this was something we all could benefit from if looking at the videos. I don't many of really know how obedient we can be. When authority is giving an order it's almost the person's fear of going against the majority. This is where ethics or morals could come a bit conflicted. Milgrim believed it necessary to have obedience I'd necessary but there is a downside to it as well. There was a state of conflict, but in the end authority would the person to follow through. In the video, I even saw a man willing to do more as long as the responsibility of killing older man was put on to someone else. I can even sat the same has happened to me in bad decisions growing up. Taylojj2
ReplyDeleteStanley Milgram was a Psychologists that studied human behavior. The experiments that he and others conducted were controversial and may not ever be done again. He studied the Nazis and how they could be so inhuman. Obedience one of Milgram’s studies to teach people to learn from their mistake. The shock generator using shocks to discipline, when an incorrect answer is given a shock is given. Milgram felt like obedience was the right discipline to give. Many psychologist were subject to this experiment and some would laugh hysterically. I feel as if when someone is under that much stress they are bound to answer questions wrong and shocking someone would not make the situation better or make them answer questions correctly. You can tell in the video the man giving the shocks wanted to stop but he was told to continue which he did whether he kill the man or not. LAWS001
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