What may seem like a child's outburst in this scene is actually a strong representation of ageism and the principles surrounding it. The Dr. has a strong point in saying that because his father brought him into this world, it is his father who owes him everything. Most parents would probably disagree with this and follow the mentality of "I brought you into this world I can take you out." Yet, the Dr. makes a compelling argument. If two people decided to bring another human in this world they are responsible for giving them the world. Then at some point, these children brought into the world become their own people, free to make their own decisions. I believe it is at this breaking point that most ageism occurs. The older judge the younger for changing the way things are done. The older believe that the way they did things is the "right" way. On the other hand the younger judge the older by believing that the older are crazy and aren't with the times. This is precisely the situation in the above scene. But really is it just this disagreement in values/beliefs that causes ageism? After all, the older people have gone through the stages of life the younger are experiencing. But as time goes on things do change. A good example in this scene is the view point of interracial couples. The father grew up in a time where an interracial marriage was blasphemy, yet the son tries to explain that times are changing for his generation and interracial marriage is becoming acceptable from the view point of society. We even see today how racism has been altered with the times. It is a part of society that has always been there as shameful as it is, but we've come a long way. No one blinks two eyes at an interracial couple today unlike the time period of this movie where it was unbelievable. Sociologically, it is interesting the think how ageism and racism will be altered over the next ten to twenty years. Clearly, the generations to come will have their own beliefs just like we do from the principles in this 1967 movie. farmgirl012
I agree with you that some of this is due to the generational gap caused by their age. I also believe that John (the doctor) had a lot of experiences to help him step outside the cultural norm. His father was a simple middle class mailman who's life and culture was limited. He had most likely never experienced some of the cultural differences that John's travels had let him see around the world traveling as a doctor. John was most likely upper middle class or upper class at this time which let him step out the normal stereotypes of the time for his race and become part of this counterculture movement. I think that his general values that he learned from his family were still intact such as no sex before marriage. His father however was still stuck in the traditional values of the time to marry into the same race.Camp012
Camp012 - I'm on page with you here. The Doc definitely assimilated to a degree to the new cultural shift on attitudes concerning race, role expectations, and challenging the social norms of the day. This assimilation enabled him to maintain his cultural identity while embodying the best of other cultures (as seen in the film). He was somewhat multicultural and even more - egalitarian. Simply Me 012
Agreed. This had a lot to do with ageism. I think his dad was just so in shock because he never thought his son would end up with a white girl. He knew things back from his time where it was not acceptable at all and figured it would be the same way. Maybe he didn't even assume that two people of different races could have feelings for each other? How can the dad be so negative when he was the one who helped raised his son to be the way he is? P.O012
You make a strong point here. The Dr.'s father automatically assumed the son was wrong for stepping out of the socially structured norms surrounding miscegination of the era. When the son dared challenge the patriarchal and ageist display of well meant advice from the father, there was a loud, silent clash of personal and social ideologies. A remarkable realization for the father occurred. Maybe the son actually became the father even if for an instance. Simply Me 012
The older men are stuck thinking of the old ways of life. In the 60's, this was the normal way that both colored and white people viewed life concerning race. They believed that their children should marry within their own race to avoid problems from society. They even feared they may be hurt in some way. They also didn't like the way their adult children were so insistent on marrying after they only knew each other just a short amount of time. Gender played a part in this as the older women, the mothers, immediately thought of how much their adult children loved each other. They were remembering how it was to be fresh in love and didn't want to go against the feelings the two had for each other. John's mother let the men know that in their old age, they had forgotten the most important thing...that the kids were in love. She referred to them as old shells of men. Men and woman have always had different views when it comes to love. The Dr's dad couldn't see beyond the color of their skin. He just did not want his son to marry a white woman. John really set his dad straight. Ageism was displayed on both sides, young and old. The Dr. let his father know that his ways of thinking were different than his own. Times had changed from the way his father was raised. The old way of thinking vs. the new way of thinking. The newer generation wasn't so prejudice as the older. Even the maid had prejudice ways of thinking. The older women may have been against the marriage at first sight, but as soon as they saw that their adult children had special feelings for each other, they immediately understood and remembered how they felt about their spouses when they were younger. Love was most important to them. After the girl's father talked to everyone and thought about it, he decided they would have a hard time with the race issue, but as long as they held tight to each other, they would be okay. Race played in the possible interracial marriage. Race also played because John's father was totally against his son marrying a white woman. His father, and the maid, didn't believe colored people and whites belonged together. They acted like it was a total sin. Ageism played with John and his father. Gender was shown in the different views of the older men and older women. Times have changed and so has peoples' ways of thinking concerning age, race, and gender. Women back then were more reserved and didn't even think of voicing their opinions to their husbands. Today, we have no problems at all doing that. Today people get married to not only a different race, but partners of the same gender. It's really unbelievable how so many views and things change in fifty years. Society has and will continually keep changing. Makes you wonder what the issues will be fifty years from now. Nana012
I thought the same thing about the ladies, as soon as they saw how their children felt about each other, they fell in love with their love. I was afraid that the men couldn't see reason and understand what their wives and children were trying to tell them. It's very interesting to see how far ideals and values in society have changed in the course of 50 years. I too wonder what the next 50 years will bring. Firedancer012
This clip from the movie has many sociological scenarios. The first thing I think of is roles. In our society even today it is expected that the father play the role of giving the son advice even if it is unwanted. John (the son) takes a very bold stance against the traditional role of the father by telling his father to basically back off and what he's saying is and old way of thinking. I also think that this has a lot to do Weber's definition of tradition in that his father is only trying to pass down what has been a generation to generation set of values and beliefs. His father does not understand that times are changing and his son does not have those same values. His dad sees his behavior as deviant from the cultural norms and is trying to remind him that at this time in history he is breaking the social norms. I also think John's different way of thinking than his dads is do to John's social class. John has occupational prestige as a well known doctor which pulls him out of the stereotype of a normal black man in this time period. It gives him his strength and courage to break the social norms. It gives him the power to tell his dad his generation is evolving away from the old ways of thinking of his father's generation. For this time period John is probably part of the upper class which means he's already overcome all kinds of obstacles. His father however is still conforming to the times as a middle class African-American. This also shows how John's values and attitudes are changing. His father's generation believes that his son "owes" him for supporting him through the struggles of raising children. John however believes from the day his father chose to have him it is was his obligation to raise him right. In some ways even today, I think John is lucky to have a father that provided so well because there are many who aren't so lucky. This is why at the end of the speech I think he reminds his father that he loves him for all he is and has done.His father comes from a generation full of segregation and even with freedom has not evolved like his son into a new era. John's generation is part of the counterculture of the time that eventually breaks through the barrier of making interracial dating acceptable.Camp012
This scene plays a lot into the differences between father and son when it came to generation. The movie was set in the late 1960's a time when racial segration was still active. John's Father was raised in more of a racial isolation era and have experience the problems that can occur if an interracial couple to present themselves to the world. John was probably raised to have respect for Authority, but had enough experience in life to see that not all of what he was told is true about society. He mentioned his father still looked at himself as a colored man, but John looked at himself as a man. It reminded me of Hobbes theory that intelligence provide the satisfaction for revolution and that is why John could be so passionately honest with his father about how he felt. His accomplishments made him able to break those barriers and travel around the world to see diversity and change. He knew his father well enough to know that he was going to react the way he did, but John, as angry as he was, still could tell his dad the right thing about life. He went on to thank his father for all he had done but still stood his ground on what he believed in. Mr Prentice was speechless you could tell he had no words for how his son was speaking to him especially since he thought his son should respect him more since he worked hard to give him a better life. Playing the role of the patriarch of the family Dad forgot to try and listen to his son who is an adult who has already lived his own life and developed a different outlook on people. food012
You make great points here. John probably was raised to respect authority, but his father didn't understand that he had come to respect authority in a different way. John saw himself as a man, he did not use race as anything that would hold him back. The only thing that would hold John back was John. He was a well-respected doctor and had the vision to want to make a change in the world. I believe that is why he fell in love with Joey to begin with. They both had the same outlook about the world and she wanted to help make those positive impacts in the world, as well. Plus, John did not see color when he looked at Joey, he simply loved her passion. John's father was "stuck in the past" and John really needed to have this conversation with him. It was a definite eye-opener for both of them. Kane012
In a patriarchal society, a husband's role is to provide for his family. Women and children in the 60's were expected to submit their will to that of the head of the household. In a patriarchal society, their voices were either silenced or ignored. The only voice that mattered was that of the husband.He decided everything for everyone and his decision was final. There was no back talk, no meeting of the minds or let's discuss this further. He was the Patriarch therefore he ruled. John finally found the courage to stand up to his father.It could be said that he was disrespectful. He pointed out that his father did his job. A job that no child asks a parent to do. One that is done out of love and duty. The child does not have to repay an imaginary debt incurred because the parents chose to have him/her. No parent has the right to dictate their adult child's life. John pointed out that this did not give his father the right to continue to dictate his life. There comes a time when enough is enough. One cannot continue to live their life afraid of what one's father will say or think. Times change, views change and people change. As parents, they gave life, encouraged and supported him. John made a choice that his father did not agree with, went left when his father wanted him to go right. His father's expectations were based on his age, past experiences and the society that he grew up in. He didn't realize that John had grown beyond his influence, had experienced a different society and was willing to face the challenge of interracial dating/marriage. This exchange was not only pivotal but powerful. To stand up to one's father took courage and strength. To point out how he sees himself as a colored man when you see yourself as a man is eye opening. John let his father know that he does not share his view of how he sees himself. He dares to see himself outside the constraint of race. poeticLB012
Some would call the doctor childish for bursting out to his father the way he did, but really it's the most adult thing he could have done. By standing his ground, explaining to his father exactly how he feels, and making him see the truth, Dr. John forced his father to understand that race and age have nothing to do with the person he is now. One line that struck me particularly powerful is when the John said "You see yourself as a colored man, I see myself as just a man." To have the courage to say that to his father was inspiring, by saying that John defined himself as a more intelligent member of society who's willing to overlook race and look at a person for just that, a person. I thought it riveting how the doctor told his father that he didn't have any obligation to him. Mostly because he didn't just tell his father, he declared it to him. So absolutely in fact that it didn't leave any room for his father to argue, because he knew he was right. And the doctor is right, bringing children into the world is something done by choice. It's selfish of a parent to not try and do everything they can to give their children the world. Patriarchy was rampant in the 1960's, and still is today. Women are still treated like objects, and worse in some places. I think this movie, and this scene in particular gives people an idea of what patriarchy is like when put into practice. The good news is that women continue to gain more and more independence in the world,and hopefully with enough time will be accepted as full members of modern society. They will be able to earn the same wages as men do and advance at the same rate that men do. Firedancer012
This was a huge turning point for Dr. John. It is very obvious that the pressure from his father has been weighing on him for some time and this was the last straw. The biggest point the Dr. made was that he did not owe his father anything. The patriarchy was over. John had accomplished so much and, yes, he did have his father to thank for it, but he had no right to tell him what to do anymore. John did not want to tell his father about Joey, he wanted to write to him. I don't know if he felt as though he was letting his father down because he was not marrying a black woman or what the concern was. When John said, "You see yourself as a colored man, I see myself as just a man.", was such a powerful statement because it proved that John was not racist and that it was time that his father stop being that way. The world was changing around him and he had better realize it. I don't believe that John's father was concerned about how the couple would be treated, I believe the father's racism is what blinded him. He did not want to see his son marry "outside the race", but the way that John delivers the message to his father, he sees that his son is right. John had become a man and had decided his own values. They were different from his father's, but they were still good values. Ageism played heavy in this scene as well, but it went both ways. John's father did not think that John could figure out things on his own, as if he still saw John as a child. John proved to his father that he was well capable of making good decisions on his own. They both had an awakening on this day. Kane012
I think this part of the movie was best (besides the scene when moms tells her friend ta scoot it) for a million reasons. He finally stands up for what is right in his eyes and makes a good argument about it. My grandpa is still stuck in his old way where he sees somebody who's not white and looks at them as so. The Dr. looking at himself as a man is how it should always have been. I was kind of thrown off when his dad said he had to carry that bag for all those years for his son. What! That's is what a parent/parents are suppose to do for their children. It's not about who's colored what and what's right or wrong in the eyes of other people. I think its funny because they are both trying to be the MAN here but his son obviously took that role. You can't blame his dad for looking at the situation as shocking because he grew up in a time where nothing seemed it was going to change. I think in society, things like this happened more and more to the point people finally realized that were all just human (despite the racial wars going on in American). It made me feel better about myself watching this because my grandpa has always looked down on me for being mixed (like I could help it, right?) Even though at the end of the movie his dad still didn't accept the fact that they were going through with their plans, he at least understood where his son was coming from and could possibly change his outlook as well. P.O012
This was one of my favorite scenes. Very rich with sociological points. What I like is how it seemed like he got something off of his chest that has been there awhile. When he said he doesn't owe his father anything, but yet his father owed something to him when he was growing up was a powerful statement. A lot of children hear from their parents how they brought them in this world and they can take them out. When parents make that statement they pretty much mean they don't owe their child anything but the life they were given. I disagree. As a parent myself, I feel like I owe my kids the world because they didn't ask to be here. I brought them in this world, so it is my duty as their parent to give them a life until they are able to make it on their own. I believe thats what the Dr is saying. Ageism was strongly displayed in this clip. Dr. mentioned a few times how times have changed and his father should pretty much just deal with the fact that things are different from when he was growing up. His father is displaying concern based on how things were with him growing up. Interracial marriage was frowned upon but now it seems to be a possibility since laws are being passed regarding this issue. The father still believes this marriage is a far fetched idea and his son is making a mistake. Ageism is also displayed where the father feels like he knows whats best and Dr doesn't. Dr feels like he knows what best for him but his father is too old to see his point. If we want to get into patriarchy, the son respected his father enough to consider his opinion but I believe this clip was his breaking point. KingOli1016012
In my opinion this is one of the most powerful moments of the movie. For the times, it was rare to stand up to one's elders and especially about such a controversial issue. But how would things be now, in today's times? Race is still an issue, even more so in the last couple of years it seems. There will be people that deem inter-racial relationships inappropriate. But society doesnt have such an importance on patriarchy anymore. I believe most people value their family's opinions but to what extent do they let it control them and their decisions??? For example, homosexuality is a huge issue in society today. I was seeing a father trying to control a son's choices if that son were gay. Society is constantly evolving. What is norm will not be the same as it was 40 years ago. And it wont be the same 40 years from now. MomtoM.L.M.012
This part of the clip from the movie has very profound words, in terms of social change. The two generations had very different points of view, and give a great example of how a generation can creat social change. Even though the father was not in agreement with his son's relationship, after the conversation he began to understand that his son was just in love, and he began to see the differences between then and now, and how things have been changing progressively since then. Interracial marriages were seen as a crime to the point that they were illegal in seventeen states in the 1960's. Right now we have a similar situation with same sex marriage. It has been a big fight in the courthouses across America for about a decade but the issue has begun to change in some states. Some people have become more accepting and are thinking differently about the meaning of morality. People are beginning to see others as people that just want to pursue their happiness with their partner. This scene of the movie is my favorite because of the powerful message that it carries. futbol021
I agree that the two generations have differing views. I'm not convinced that the father understood his son's point of view. He may come to accept his son's decision because to not may cause him to lose his son. He still didn't like the idea of his son putting himself at risk during a time when interracial dating/marriage was a crime. He understood that his son was going to face major challenges. Same sex couples will face those same challenges in society today. poeticLB012
What may seem like a child's outburst in this scene is actually a strong representation of ageism and the principles surrounding it. The Dr. has a strong point in saying that because his father brought him into this world, it is his father who owes him everything. Most parents would probably disagree with this and follow the mentality of "I brought you into this world I can take you out." Yet, the Dr. makes a compelling argument. If two people decided to bring another human in this world they are responsible for giving them the world. Then at some point, these children brought into the world become their own people, free to make their own decisions. I believe it is at this breaking point that most ageism occurs. The older judge the younger for changing the way things are done. The older believe that the way they did things is the "right" way. On the other hand the younger judge the older by believing that the older are crazy and aren't with the times. This is precisely the situation in the above scene. But really is it just this disagreement in values/beliefs that causes ageism? After all, the older people have gone through the stages of life the younger are experiencing. But as time goes on things do change. A good example in this scene is the view point of interracial couples. The father grew up in a time where an interracial marriage was blasphemy, yet the son tries to explain that times are changing for his generation and interracial marriage is becoming acceptable from the view point of society. We even see today how racism has been altered with the times. It is a part of society that has always been there as shameful as it is, but we've come a long way. No one blinks two eyes at an interracial couple today unlike the time period of this movie where it was unbelievable. Sociologically, it is interesting the think how ageism and racism will be altered over the next ten to twenty years. Clearly, the generations to come will have their own beliefs just like we do from the principles in this 1967 movie. farmgirl012
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that some of this is due to the generational gap caused by their age. I also believe that John (the doctor) had a lot of experiences to help him step outside the cultural norm. His father was a simple middle class mailman who's life and culture was limited. He had most likely never experienced some of the cultural differences that John's travels had let him see around the world traveling as a doctor. John was most likely upper middle class or upper class at this time which let him step out the normal stereotypes of the time for his race and become part of this counterculture movement. I think that his general values that he learned from his family were still intact such as no sex before marriage. His father however was still stuck in the traditional values of the time to marry into the same race.Camp012
DeleteCamp012 - I'm on page with you here. The Doc definitely assimilated to a degree to the new cultural shift on attitudes concerning race, role expectations, and challenging the social norms of the day. This assimilation enabled him to maintain his cultural identity while embodying the best of other cultures (as seen in the film). He was somewhat multicultural and even more - egalitarian. Simply Me 012
DeleteAgreed. This had a lot to do with ageism. I think his dad was just so in shock because he never thought his son would end up with a white girl. He knew things back from his time where it was not acceptable at all and figured it would be the same way. Maybe he didn't even assume that two people of different races could have feelings for each other? How can the dad be so negative when he was the one who helped raised his son to be the way he is? P.O012
DeleteYou make a strong point here. The Dr.'s father automatically assumed the son was wrong for stepping out of the socially structured norms surrounding miscegination of the era. When the son dared challenge the patriarchal and ageist display of well meant advice from the father, there was a loud, silent clash of personal and social ideologies. A remarkable realization for the father occurred. Maybe the son actually became the father even if for an instance. Simply Me 012
ReplyDeleteThe older men are stuck thinking of the old ways of life. In the 60's, this was the normal way that both colored and white people viewed life concerning race. They believed that their children should marry within their own race to avoid problems from society. They even feared they may be hurt in some way. They also didn't like the way their adult children were so insistent on marrying after they only knew each other just a short amount of time. Gender played a part in this as the older women, the mothers, immediately thought of how much their adult children loved each other. They were remembering how it was to be fresh in love and didn't want to go against the feelings the two had for each other. John's mother let the men know that in their old age, they had forgotten the most important thing...that the kids were in love. She referred to them as old shells of men. Men and woman have always had different views when it comes to love. The Dr's dad couldn't see beyond the color of their skin. He just did not want his son to marry a white woman. John really set his dad straight. Ageism was displayed on both sides, young and old. The Dr. let his father know that his ways of thinking were different than his own. Times had changed from the way his father was raised. The old way of thinking vs. the new way of thinking. The newer generation wasn't so prejudice as the older. Even the maid had prejudice ways of thinking. The older women may have been against the marriage at first sight, but as soon as they saw that their adult children had special feelings for each other, they immediately understood and remembered how they felt about their spouses when they were younger. Love was most important to them. After the girl's father talked to everyone and thought about it, he decided they would have a hard time with the race issue, but as long as they held tight to each other, they would be okay. Race played in the possible interracial marriage. Race also played because John's father was totally against his son marrying a white woman. His father, and the maid, didn't believe colored people and whites belonged together. They acted like it was a total sin. Ageism played with John and his father. Gender was shown in the different views of the older men and older women. Times have changed and so has peoples' ways of thinking concerning age, race, and gender. Women back then were more reserved and didn't even think of voicing their opinions to their husbands. Today, we have no problems at all doing that. Today people get married to not only a different race, but partners of the same gender. It's really unbelievable how so many views and things change in fifty years. Society has and will continually keep changing. Makes you wonder what the issues will be fifty years from now. Nana012
ReplyDeleteI thought the same thing about the ladies, as soon as they saw how their children felt about each other, they fell in love with their love. I was afraid that the men couldn't see reason and understand what their wives and children were trying to tell them. It's very interesting to see how far ideals and values in society have changed in the course of 50 years. I too wonder what the next 50 years will bring. Firedancer012
DeleteThis clip from the movie has many sociological scenarios. The first thing I think of is roles. In our society even today it is expected that the father play the role of giving the son advice even if it is unwanted. John (the son) takes a very bold stance against the traditional role of the father by telling his father to basically back off and what he's saying is and old way of thinking. I also think that this has a lot to do Weber's definition of tradition in that his father is only trying to pass down what has been a generation to generation set of values and beliefs. His father does not understand that times are changing and his son does not have those same values. His dad sees his behavior as deviant from the cultural norms and is trying to remind him that at this time in history he is breaking the social norms. I also think John's different way of thinking than his dads is do to John's social class. John has occupational prestige as a well known doctor which pulls him out of the stereotype of a normal black man in this time period. It gives him his strength and courage to break the social norms. It gives him the power to tell his dad his generation is evolving away from the old ways of thinking of his father's generation. For this time period John is probably part of the upper class which means he's already overcome all kinds of obstacles. His father however is still conforming to the times as a middle class African-American. This also shows how John's values and attitudes are changing. His father's generation believes that his son "owes" him for supporting him through the struggles of raising children. John however believes from the day his father chose to have him it is was his obligation to raise him right. In some ways even today, I think John is lucky to have a father that provided so well because there are many who aren't so lucky. This is why at the end of the speech I think he reminds his father that he loves him for all he is and has done.His father comes from a generation full of segregation and even with freedom has not evolved like his son into a new era. John's generation is part of the counterculture of the time that eventually breaks through the barrier of making interracial dating acceptable.Camp012
ReplyDeleteThis scene plays a lot into the differences between father and son when it came to generation. The movie was set in the late 1960's a time when racial segration was still active. John's Father was raised in more of a racial isolation era and have experience the problems that can occur if an interracial couple to present themselves to the world. John was probably raised to have respect for Authority, but had enough experience in life to see that not all of what he was told is true about society. He mentioned his father still looked at himself as a colored man, but John looked at himself as a man. It reminded me of Hobbes theory that intelligence provide the satisfaction for revolution and that is why John could be so passionately honest with his father about how he felt. His accomplishments made him able to break those barriers and travel around the world to see diversity and change. He knew his father well enough to know that he was going to react the way he did, but John, as angry as he was, still could tell his dad the right thing about life. He went on to thank his father for all he had done but still stood his ground on what he believed in. Mr Prentice was speechless you could tell he had no words for how his son was speaking to him especially since he thought his son should respect him more since he worked hard to give him a better life. Playing the role of the patriarch of the family Dad forgot to try and listen to his son who is an adult who has already lived his own life and developed a different outlook on people. food012
ReplyDeleteYou make great points here. John probably was raised to respect authority, but his father didn't understand that he had come to respect authority in a different way. John saw himself as a man, he did not use race as anything that would hold him back. The only thing that would hold John back was John. He was a well-respected doctor and had the vision to want to make a change in the world. I believe that is why he fell in love with Joey to begin with. They both had the same outlook about the world and she wanted to help make those positive impacts in the world, as well. Plus, John did not see color when he looked at Joey, he simply loved her passion. John's father was "stuck in the past" and John really needed to have this conversation with him. It was a definite eye-opener for both of them. Kane012
DeleteIn a patriarchal society, a husband's role is to provide for his family. Women and children in the 60's were expected to submit their will to that of the head of the household. In a patriarchal society, their voices were either silenced or ignored. The only voice that mattered was that of the husband.He decided everything for everyone and his decision was final. There was no back talk, no meeting of the minds or let's discuss this further. He was the Patriarch therefore he ruled. John finally found the courage to stand up to his father.It could be said that he was disrespectful. He pointed out that his father did his job. A job that no child asks a parent to do. One that is done out of love and duty. The child does not have to repay an imaginary debt incurred because the parents chose to have him/her. No parent has the right to dictate their adult child's life. John pointed out that this did not give his father the right to continue to dictate his life. There comes a time when enough is enough. One cannot continue to live their life afraid of what one's father will say or think. Times change, views change and people change. As parents, they gave life, encouraged and supported him. John made a choice that his father did not agree with, went left when his father wanted him to go right. His father's expectations were based on his age, past experiences and the society that he grew up in. He didn't realize that John had grown beyond his influence, had experienced a different society and was willing to face the challenge of interracial dating/marriage. This exchange was not only pivotal but powerful. To stand up to one's father took courage and strength. To point out how he sees himself as a colored man when you see yourself as a man is eye opening. John let his father know that he does not share his view of how he sees himself. He dares to see himself outside the constraint of race. poeticLB012
ReplyDeleteSome would call the doctor childish for bursting out to his father the way he did, but really it's the most adult thing he could have done. By standing his ground, explaining to his father exactly how he feels, and making him see the truth, Dr. John forced his father to understand that race and age have nothing to do with the person he is now. One line that struck me particularly powerful is when the John said "You see yourself as a colored man, I see myself as just a man." To have the courage to say that to his father was inspiring, by saying that John defined himself as a more intelligent member of society who's willing to overlook race and look at a person for just that, a person. I thought it riveting how the doctor told his father that he didn't have any obligation to him. Mostly because he didn't just tell his father, he declared it to him. So absolutely in fact that it didn't leave any room for his father to argue, because he knew he was right. And the doctor is right, bringing children into the world is something done by choice. It's selfish of a parent to not try and do everything they can to give their children the world. Patriarchy was rampant in the 1960's, and still is today. Women are still treated like objects, and worse in some places. I think this movie, and this scene in particular gives people an idea of what patriarchy is like when put into practice. The good news is that women continue to gain more and more independence in the world,and hopefully with enough time will be accepted as full members of modern society. They will be able to earn the same wages as men do and advance at the same rate that men do. Firedancer012
ReplyDeleteThis was a huge turning point for Dr. John. It is very obvious that the pressure from his father has been weighing on him for some time and this was the last straw. The biggest point the Dr. made was that he did not owe his father anything. The patriarchy was over. John had accomplished so much and, yes, he did have his father to thank for it, but he had no right to tell him what to do anymore. John did not want to tell his father about Joey, he wanted to write to him. I don't know if he felt as though he was letting his father down because he was not marrying a black woman or what the concern was. When John said, "You see yourself as a colored man, I see myself as just a man.", was such a powerful statement because it proved that John was not racist and that it was time that his father stop being that way. The world was changing around him and he had better realize it. I don't believe that John's father was concerned about how the couple would be treated, I believe the father's racism is what blinded him. He did not want to see his son marry "outside the race", but the way that John delivers the message to his father, he sees that his son is right. John had become a man and had decided his own values. They were different from his father's, but they were still good values. Ageism played heavy in this scene as well, but it went both ways. John's father did not think that John could figure out things on his own, as if he still saw John as a child. John proved to his father that he was well capable of making good decisions on his own. They both had an awakening on this day. Kane012
ReplyDeleteI think this part of the movie was best (besides the scene when moms tells her friend ta scoot it) for a million reasons. He finally stands up for what is right in his eyes and makes a good argument about it. My grandpa is still stuck in his old way where he sees somebody who's not white and looks at them as so. The Dr. looking at himself as a man is how it should always have been. I was kind of thrown off when his dad said he had to carry that bag for all those years for his son. What! That's is what a parent/parents are suppose to do for their children. It's not about who's colored what and what's right or wrong in the eyes of other people. I think its funny because they are both trying to be the MAN here but his son obviously took that role. You can't blame his dad for looking at the situation as shocking because he grew up in a time where nothing seemed it was going to change. I think in society, things like this happened more and more to the point people finally realized that were all just human (despite the racial wars going on in American). It made me feel better about myself watching this because my grandpa has always looked down on me for being mixed (like I could help it, right?) Even though at the end of the movie his dad still didn't accept the fact that they were going through with their plans, he at least understood where his son was coming from and could possibly change his outlook as well. P.O012
ReplyDeleteThis was one of my favorite scenes. Very rich with sociological points. What I like is how it seemed like he got something off of his chest that has been there awhile. When he said he doesn't owe his father anything, but yet his father owed something to him when he was growing up was a powerful statement. A lot of children hear from their parents how they brought them in this world and they can take them out. When parents make that statement they pretty much mean they don't owe their child anything but the life they were given. I disagree. As a parent myself, I feel like I owe my kids the world because they didn't ask to be here. I brought them in this world, so it is my duty as their parent to give them a life until they are able to make it on their own. I believe thats what the Dr is saying. Ageism was strongly displayed in this clip. Dr. mentioned a few times how times have changed and his father should pretty much just deal with the fact that things are different from when he was growing up. His father is displaying concern based on how things were with him growing up. Interracial marriage was frowned upon but now it seems to be a possibility since laws are being passed regarding this issue. The father still believes this marriage is a far fetched idea and his son is making a mistake. Ageism is also displayed where the father feels like he knows whats best and Dr doesn't. Dr feels like he knows what best for him but his father is too old to see his point. If we want to get into patriarchy, the son respected his father enough to consider his opinion but I believe this clip was his breaking point. KingOli1016012
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion this is one of the most powerful moments of the movie. For the times, it was rare to stand up to one's elders and especially about such a controversial issue. But how would things be now, in today's times? Race is still an issue, even more so in the last couple of years it seems. There will be people that deem inter-racial relationships inappropriate. But society doesnt have such an importance on patriarchy anymore. I believe most people value their family's opinions but to what extent do they let it control them and their decisions??? For example, homosexuality is a huge issue in society today. I was seeing a father trying to control a son's choices if that son were gay. Society is constantly evolving. What is norm will not be the same as it was 40 years ago. And it wont be the same 40 years from now. MomtoM.L.M.012
ReplyDeleteThis part of the clip from the movie has very profound words, in terms of social change. The two generations had very different points of view, and give a great example of how a generation can creat social change. Even though the father was not in agreement with his son's relationship, after the conversation he began to understand that his son was just in love, and he began to see the differences between then and now, and how things have been changing progressively since then. Interracial marriages were seen as a crime to the point that they were illegal in seventeen states in the 1960's. Right now we have a similar situation with same sex marriage. It has been a big fight in the courthouses across America for about a decade but the issue has begun to change in some states. Some people have become more accepting and are thinking differently about the meaning of morality. People are beginning to see others as people that just want to pursue their happiness with their partner. This scene of the movie is my favorite because of the powerful message that it carries. futbol021
ReplyDeleteI agree that the two generations have differing views. I'm not convinced that the father understood his son's point of view. He may come to accept his son's decision because to not may cause him to lose his son. He still didn't like the idea of his son putting himself at risk during a time when interracial dating/marriage was a crime. He understood that his son was going to face major challenges. Same sex couples will face those same challenges in society today. poeticLB012
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