In regards to family: John implies that a marriage is not a marriage without children. These days, this couldn’t be further from the truth, fewer and fewer people in the United States and in fact many places all over the world are having a great deal less children. In fact, some couples (homosexual couples) cannot have children at all and are still accepted as families. Admittedly though, the presence of a child does bring to mind stronger imagery of family in my mind than in less conventional marriage arrangements without children. In regards to deviance and patriarchy: John brings up how Joanna is completely neutral, and even optimistic about the position of black people in society, citing that Joanna feels every one of their children would be the president of the United States and all have colorful administrations. He also mentions that Her father was the one that made her that way with his liberal teachings – the implication here is that her father is not adhering to his own philosophies that he used to raise his daughter. This is an interesting manifestation of personal contradiction that has clearly arisen as cognitive dissonance when her father was confronted with having to practice what he preaches. This is enforced even more when John cites Joanna as having praised her father as fighting his whole life against racial discrimination and saying that she was certain her parents would welcome her with open arms. John seems a lot more realistic about the situation because of his upbringing. In his family, he most likely had to experience a great deal of racial prejudice first-hand. This is a good example of how perception of political climates is not an objective thing, but subjective. Thanks to Joanna’s upbringing, her idea of what is deviant has become entirely anomalous and hyper-progressive for the time. This whole contradiction between teachings and practice by Joanna’s father could also be perceived as a symptom of patriarchy during the time. Joanna’s father feels that he has the moral and authoritative high ground to the extent that he can preach to his daughter philosophies which he considers ethically correct, while at least initially contradicting these teachings by exercising his power of authority over the couple and trying to convince them that it was wrong to get married (while never admitting he was wrong in his raising of Joanna). Poet005
In this clip from Guess who’s coming to dinner the father and the doctor are talking about the problems that may arise from the doctor marrying his white daughter. They both believe that the world is changing but they also both realize that there will be issues that people have with the two of them getting married. Back in this time period a white and african american person being married was considered deviant. Now these such things happen every day and nobody bats an eye at it. This is very true that just before 2009 there had not been a black president. I found it strange that in this movie there didn’t seem to be an issue between the two families, like both fathers seemed to almost get along when talking about the matters so I don’t see what the issue with their children getting married was. And even further back around the time this movie took place there was supposedly never going to be any african americans on professional sports teams. Fast forward a few decades and here many of these sports have many African Americans who are very well known for being outstanding in their respected sports. I find it strange that on both families the men seemed to have the final say in whether the two lovers could stay together or have the blessings to be married. Nowadays it almost seems more like the women of the households are in control. In my own experience my step mother was in more control than my father was that was partially due to the fact that he was always away working so she was in charge there. I feel as though it has equalled out over the years and the women now have more say in matters such as this. I see a trend over time issues people have with people loving differently than what society is used to cause uprising. Like in this movie the African American man and the white woman were going to marry each other even though they knew what issues they and their children could face in the future. But it is people like this that start bringing change to the world. It gives others the courage to stand up and do what they believe in and after so long the rest of society just has to face that there is a social change and accept the changes with open arms. Gym005
Family means a lot in the old times as well as the new. That has not changed. What has though been that the father in this movie was so above everyone else and had the power to tell his son and wife what they could do and what they could not. He made the decisions because he was the “man.” Although, as time is progressing, things are also changing. The women in more modern times now are starting to have a say so and the choices being made are around 50/50 between the two parents. Reflecting back to the movie, the dads of both the son and daughter were against the marriage and because in their time, a black and white getting married was wrong, it was soon to be wrong in their kid’s generation as well. As the two dad’s disagreed with their child’s choices, the mother’s, I believe, were more open to the idea because it was their kid. Their child was happy and that is all that they had wanted. Everyone knew this whole interracial marriage was not normal and was not going to be seen as okay from other people’s eyes, but that is not what had mattered. Happiness plays such a huge role in one’s life and it can impact how you live if you are happy. Interracial marriages are becoming more common and although, the whole idea that blacks should be with blacks and whites should be with whites, people are becoming more open minded to the idea of such thing. In my opinion, I think that is great. Coming from a country where states even BANNED such act to coming to a country which one can even marry the same sex as them is outstanding. Black, white, gay, straight, everyone deserves a shot at happiness. Watching this movie had opened my eyes on to the idea that people did really think this was wrong and people may always think it is, but society is changing. Society is accepting. To point out one more thing, families are being able to now make decisions as a whole instead of just having the man in the house figure everything out. That truly has changed and with that being said, “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” opened my eyes on to how things were and how things have changed. #BabyBray005.
Joanna’s father is afraid about the issues that Joanna’s and John’s kids are going to face, since they will be mixed children. But John tells his new father in law that Joanna believes that they will make a future for themselves and even become president of the United States. Both implying about the mix in race the kids will share and having equal opportunity due to their skin color. Mr. Drayton in a way holds back what he really wants to say to John, about how issues with the color of the children’s skin could be a huge issue. But really never has any courage to say what he really wants to say. Mr. Drayton seems to be scared for the future for the both of them and the offspring. Another thing that I noticed in this scene is all about the offspring, where John is pushing really hard for. While Mr. Drayton doesn’t want them to rush super quickly and just wait it out. Both Joanna and John are optimistic about the world changing, while Mr. Drayton is both in a way believes that it seems the world will never change about these kinds of situations. But as well as being slightly optimistic in a way since he is saying that these kinds of feelings are changing, “right in his own backyard.” Mr. Drayton tries to also corner John in the conversation and taking the selfish route of saying that it is not fair to Mr. Drayton about this quick decision on their lives. Both John and Joanna are challenging Mr. Drayton’s Patriarchy way of thinking, since he is the man of the family and runs the family. Where all of this quick decision making is coming from Joanna, the daughter to Mr. Drayton. The last thing that John says to Mr. Drayton is what Joanna told him, how he is a lifelong fighting liberal and laughs at discrimination. Where in this case actions are speaking much louder than words, since an African American man is trying to marry their white daughter, they are super questionable about it. So maybe either Joanna or Mr. Drayton was living a lie in that whole statement. This whole scene sums up that Mr. Drayton isn’t who he said he was to his own daughter and how nervous he is in this whole situation for the family, John and Joanna, and their offspring. TB005
Family tradition in the 60’s was ruled by patriarchy, which was one of the overruling themes of this movie. The father decides everything that goes on within the family and the household, and just the act alone of saying anything against the father was considered deviant. Looking at the way society used to be during this time period, it is safe to say that John and Joey are the most deviant types of people of their time. Not only because of their racial difference, but they also do not obey the tradition of being listening to everything their parents say without thinking differently. This is a proven pattern in newer generations, as more and more adolescents seem to be developing their own sense of ‘self’ at a much younger age. In other words, deviance is growing, hence the rapid changes our society has seen in the past 100 years. It is fair to infer that patriarchy is becoming less prominent than it used to be, which could also be why we see more deviance in newer generations. Before, the family answered to the father, and that was the end of the story. Today, there is still a boundary of respect within the household, but it is also seen as more of a democracy, as parents are treating each other as equal beings, and the majority of households are no longer traditional nuclear families. Looking at the situation from the father’s point of view, however, it is understandable as to why he initially reacted to the situation the way he did. Even though he knew that ethically, John was a person, he also knew that what his daughter and this stranger that he had just met were doing was not normal. It is imaginable that he felt an internal conflict, as what they were asking of him went against everything he was raised around. This, in no way, means that his traditions were ‘right’, but it is the realistic side of interpretation. However, with time, he decided to conform to everyone else’s points of view, which could be a microcosm of our society—if and when deviants push hard for a change, they will eventually receive it. Puppies005
Truly, deviance, family and patriarchy played a huge role in this film and even in this clip. Looking at it today, there is clearly cultural and social differences. What was unacceptable then, today is more welcome with open arms. Watching the film and the clip we as the audience of today, kind of just sit and wonder why it was so much of a big deal that they want to get married? Why does anyone else’s’ opinion matter if the two are really in love and financially stable? That’s where the deviance is so clear. Putting yourself in the fathers’ shoes, you will understand that he is just concerned. He Is worried about his and his family’s’ reputation. He is also probably worried of the safety of his daughter emotionally and physically. That is because in his time, the act of the two getting married was deviant. In a great number of states, an African American and a Caucasian getting married or just publically being together was deviant. The fact that the daughter didn’t have to much as a care in the world may have made it even more deviant. Family was important in this movie as well. Joey cared very much about her family’s opinion and what they would think about her decision. A couple may disagree with me about that statement but if she did not care, she wouldn’t have stayed that long, seeing that her daughter had disapproved very much of her plans. The ideas and opinions of the families quite minimally but still shaped the ideas of the future newlyweds. John himself made it clear that If it would not be excepted by both parties of joey’s family then he would not proceed with the marriage. The way that the father felt shaped everyone else who had found out the news that was considered familial friends as well to make them secondly think of their view on it. That brings us into patriarchy. The father since he had walked into the house, had stolen the show. The wife wouldn’t make a move without her husband. The mother for a long time did not say anything or how she truly felt about the situation in fear or how her husband would react. It was like no one else’s opinion mattered. The wife wouldn’t make a move without her husband. PurpleHearts005
In this video clip, John and Joey’ s dad is having a conversation about the marriage. Joey’s dad brings up if they have children and the problems they might have when they get older. I can understand why Joey’s dad mentioned that because maybe they did not think of it. Majority of parents’ want the best for their kids and do not want them to have any more problems than they already going to have. Their kids would grow up knowing that their parents were not allowed to get married and what they did was wrong at that time period. By the time they get older things may have changed. Their children would kind of be an example of something bad. Because back in the 1960’s, seeing a mixed child was not normal. Society changed the way people thought about blacks and whites getting married and having mixed children. John admits that they will have problems in the future, if they continue on and have a family and they are ready to accept and face the challenges one by one as they go on. Joey’s dad admits he his scared, no matter how confident John and Joey are. I personally do not blame him; if I was in that sort of situation I would be scared as well. I would not want my grandchildren growing up thinking that they are not acceptable because their mom is white and their dad is black. They also talked about the jobs you can receive as a white man and then as a black. I believe that John brings up the fact that society is changing for a reason; I think it is because John is right it was changing and he loved Joey and nothing was going to stop him from marrying Joey besides the approval from both sets of parents. John just did not think Joey was going to move in such a fast pace with the whole idea. Honestly, I think it was good for them to have that conversation without Joey around because it gave John and Joey’s father a chance to really open up about the marriage. Also that is was a good stepping stone. I think that is part of the reason Joey’s father ended up changing his mind about the marriage at the end. -Dance005
In the 1960’s this obviously wasn’t the family tradition and as we know was considered deviant behavior to mix races. However how could you possible say no to two couple who are highly in love and see race as a non-factor. At first it wasn’t a shock when joey’s father came in the house when everybody was outside he was under the impression that okay this is a doctor here and what about it, he never had the thought that john was there for his daughter. It took time for the realization to set in that an interracial marriage and relationship is about to happen and its going to be happening with his daughter. I feel that when her father had the time to talk to john and think about it than that made it a little better. However, when they sat down and talked about it her father explained to john what problems there were going to face. If her father was to explain the problems to joey she would understand but not quite get it as in what they were getting into and what to expect because as stated earlier she was so in love and headstrong. Some of the problems there were going to have overcome was the fact they were going to interracial children who were going to experience the racial problems as well. Despite that however they have high hopes for them and they know despite everything going on they are going to be okay and at the end of the day they don’t care what people have to say about them and their relationship this is overcoming what the “social norm is”. When you’re in love nothing should be able to stop it despite race gender and so forth. This is now our society plus more and people should just accept it and be happy with other people just being in love despite differences. -kyw005
During this scene on Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, it is pretty obvious that Mr. Drayton’s final decision determines the fate of it all. Back then, the men were the head of the household so it was only right for him to have the last say. Patriarchy was big in the 1960’s, not so much today, and John and Joey marriage really relied on his final say. In today’s society, as well as interracial marriage, patriarchy isn’t that common. Usually household decisions like this would be split 50/50. Although, to some people it is still “polite” or well-mannered to get the father’s blessing for a marriage which comes partially from the existence of patriarchy back then. In this scene, he asks John how he thinks his kid’s future will be if him and Joey go along with this marriage. It’s pretty obvious that Joey and John know they’re kids may have some problems in the future due to them being biracial, but they know they can handle anything thrown at them, especially with Joey’s optimism. During that time period, there wasn’t many people who had the optimism that Joey had about an interracial person’s future. Her opinion about her kid’s all becoming the president of the United States showed that there were some people who really saw no color, unlike most back in the 1960s and also unlike her father who really had to think about the decision of letting his white daughter marry a black male. It is totally different today because you’ll see so many more interracial couples and more acceptance of it as well. It is kind of a common part of society today and for the most part isn’t looked down upon, unless it’s a person’s personal opinion. Society as a whole has accepted interracial couples due to the protests, fights, etc., that were taken on just to get this freedom. Society has also accepted matriarchy as well seeing that most families today are led by either the mother of the household or it is split 50/50 so both mom and dad makes decisions. Women have come a long way and fought hard to get out of the position where it was just the “man’s” decision and say. In this movie, Mrs. Drayton would follow Mr. Drayton’s lead because of the huge patriarchal society that they lived in. Today, it is presented as a huge change with both patriarchy and interracial marriage. –Pizza005
In this short clip it touches bases on how John’s and Joey’s kid would grow up if they did happen to get married. This indicates that in the 1960s mixed children were not accepted as they are now. This shows how over time race and culture has changed over time. It was not a norm in the 1960s to see a mixed kid because it was considered deviant to not only date but marry out of your race. Now of days mixed kids are seen everywhere and no one gives it a second thought. Why? Because we as a society have made it a cultural norm and have accepted that in our society. This shows how it has changed from the 1960s to today's date. This brings me to what Joey’s dad said in the clip that things are changing faster than he would like them to. This shows that he is so used to how things are and the norms that, he does not want them to change. He talks about how he was a young kid and that how he was told that African Americans would never be able to play baseball. He states that change has happened with the race issue but he still thinks that things are changing as fast as they are in his house. Joey tells John how her dad is a liberal who fights against discrimination and prejudice. You would never think he did with they way that he was acting towards them being together. Yes, he may fight against discrimination but all his values changes when it becomes his personal life. This shows that people may feel and think one way but when they are actually faced with the situation they mind quickly changes without a thought. This happens a lot with people today and in the 1960s. They may feel strong about a subject and preach about it. But how strongly can you feel about a subject or situation if you have never been in it. You never know how your mind might change if that was to happen to you. Hawk005
What they are discussing is very interesting they are talking about what Joey and John’s children might have to face. What they will have to face as well as having those children. Joey is very optimistic John says. Joey thinks that their kids will be the president of the United States. John says he could settle for just Secretary of State making a joke. Joey feels that the children will have a colorful administration. Joey’s dad thinks the children will have an unfair life and that they will as well. 1961 Virginia banned interracial marriages. The Lovings were prosecuted under a statute enacted in 1924 entitled "An Act to Preserve Racial Integrity." as this article talks about a family that had gotten married and then moved to a different state. In that state interracial marriage was illegal. The Lovings also had children. The children had to face a lot of difficulties at school.”the law stated that children born out of such a union were deemed in the eyes of the State to be illegitimate and without the protections and privileges accorded to the children of lawfully wedded parents.” That is how the law was then. The children were not protected by anyone. They do not have rights basically. Unlike children to the same race parents. The children were illegitimate in the eyes of the law. That is crazy to think about now because now interracial marriages happen everyday. It is very acceptable to marry someone of another race now. The children are accepted now, not illegitimate. Joey’s dad is not looking at John like he is just a man as John sees himself as. Joey’s dad is seeing him as a black man, yes he respects John that he is a doctor and he sees him as a very important man. But Joey’s dad is not looking at John as Joey sees John. It is sad because now people do not judge like they did then. Now it is so acceptable to marry anyone, and have kids. That then is was so frowned upon. elephants005
Families, Race and Ethnicity, and deviance are the three themes/chapters I chose to write about in my paper. Many different aspects are taken into account when trying to compare these three themes from the 1960’s to today. Deviance is very controversial, a lot of people have many different opinions on what makes a deviant act. Deviant acts can change based on cultural norms. We see how parents can have a direct or indirect control over how their kids behave, which can cause them to be deviant or not. Parents should be considered role models for their children. We have seen that kids act based off of how their parents act. Homosexuality used to be considered a deviant act, as it was illegal in the 50’s and 60’s. It is now socially acceptable, and many states have legalized same sex marriage. Families have changed dramatically from the time of the 60’s to today. Divorce was rare, and kids weren't living in one-parent households in the 1960’s. Also, a lot of people have different opinions on what makes up a family. Is a family made up of all family members including extended family? Or is it just the people in the nuclear family? Family makeup has changed over the past 40-50 years. During the 60’s a lot of marriages were of the same social classes. Whites were marrying whites, and African Americans were marrying African Americans. It is to my knowledge that polygamy, polygyny, and polyandry marriages are very uncommon in the United States. Many religions and churches have banned these types of marriages. The mormon church is still one of the few churches that still allows these types of marriages. As we all know a lot of peoples views are different on race and ethnicity than opinions in the 60’s. There were the civil rights movements, all kinds of protests, and many African American were talked down upon because of their race. This lead to a lot of court disputes and it lead to equal rights among everyone in the United States. PAWW005
In the scene, the most obvious element to me was patriarchy. It speaks volumes when John decides to give Joanna’s father the final decision about their relationship, revealing John’s respect for the patriarchal head of the family. The following conversation between them showed the viewers that respect for someone leads to acceptance of opinions and a willingness to listen to ideas, even if they are opposing. However, I wish the movie would’ve presented the mother as having an equal standing of respect with John rather than him only speaking with the father. That aspect of the movie made it seem like John didn’t value Joanna’s mother’s opinion even though she has just as close of a bond with her daughter as her husband does. If the mother would’ve been shown as more equal to the father, that would’ve told the audience that people deserve respect, no matter what their gender. Even if an individual disagrees with someone else’s views, it’s common decency to respect them enough to let them state their peace uninterrupted. Family plays a major role in developing the movie, as shown by John’s unrelenting persistence that Joanna’s marriage couldn’t negatively affect her family. He stated that if him marrying Joanna would cause a problem with her family, he would withdraw himself and that is just the epitome of family values. John appreciates and admires Joanna’s relationship with her family, so he is willing to lose the woman he’s in love with for her own good. His strong family values are apparent to Joanna’s father and that earns him a little respect that leads to his approval of the marriage. Deviance is the other leading theme in this particular scene and the two men seem to have completely different ideas about the deviance of their situation. Joanna’s father seems to believe that deviance is measured by society, or that right and wrong is based majorly on what everybody else thinks about you. Joanna’s father adheres to social norms to remain a part of a society which mostly agrees that marriage shouldn’t be interracial, a common belief in the 1960s. John, conversely, is displayed as focused on his own internal morals. He knows what he believes is right and wrong and follows that instinct rather than following what society says is right. In the movie, deviance serves to create social change. In the year of the movie’s production, 1968, interracial marriage was only just made legal throughout the United States. If people like John and Joanna didn’t exist and fight for the right to marry regardless of race, the United States would still be in that archaic, racist mindset. John’s deviance led to two families and a housekeeper to see their interracial love as what it is: love. Lasagna005
Within this portion of the film Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner by Stanley Kramer there are multiple forms of sociology such as: patriarchy, deviance and social classes within the United States. First off, in this video the father of Joey, Matt Drayton, is communicating with Joey’s finance, John. At this moment you can see that there is a direct form of patriarchy. This is due to Matt facilitating this conversations by speaking for the entire family. As this is being displayed, Matt is acting as the head of the family, which is the definition of patriarchy. While doing so, Matt is confronting the acts of deviance that is occurring between the two young lovers. For example, Matt addresses the encounters that his potential grandchildren will face, the shunning that will be displayed by external members of their direct social group, and the occupations that this potential multiracial children could obtain. With their grandchildren being raised as young multiracial individuals they could be face bullying, or other social conflicts. John and Joey both will be looked down upon by members throughout society, because interracial couples are examples of acts of deviance. Also, Joey have hopes of their children obtaining lead, white collar occupations that are usually withheld by members of the caucasian descent. A prime example of this would be John being employed as a famous, international doctor. This is a key example, because when John announces his occupation to certain individuals it is seen as some sort of culture shock, because members of the African American society usually are not known to become doctors. What the audience does not realize is that early on during Guess Who's Coming to Dinner there was another interracial couple that just departed from the plane along with Joey and John. This displayed that acts of deviance can be influential and lead to social movements; which then leads others to join along. Social movements are important, because it influences others to be supported by being surrounded by others who have the same, or similar morals. Finally, Matt respects John as have has become a member of the same social class. For example, Matt respects John by speaking to him in the same language, and not making the language more simple. This is also a form of respect to someone of a different race, ethnicity, and culture.
When John and Joe's father were talking her father was only thinking about what a male would do in that situation. He showed patriarchy by saying he shouldn't do it and felt Joe's opinion didn't matter. Deviance was shown when Joe's father remarked how their kids would be treated and how he thought they were rushing into things. Joe's father and mother were the same way when they were younger but have forgotten what it felt like to be in love at first.People may assume that other people find deviance comical but it is not. Towards the end of the movie the more that Joe's father thought about the situation he realized that his wife and him were the same way they were. They didn't care about what people thought they only saw each other and how they felt and the rest of the worlds opinion didn't matter. As long as they have each other they didn't care how deviant people were towards them. When he was talking to Joe's father he said that he said if he didn't have the children he couldn't call it a marriage which didn't make sense to me.If they truly love each other having kids should not matter. Joe's father brought up the point that the children would have many problems but Joe sees that they could even be president. A lot of the older generations have different ways on how they view life and no matter what you say sometimes you can't change it.Man of the house held all the power back in that time period. Joe's father was against the marriage of his daughter and an African American man. In the 1960’s woman rarely had a say in anything that was going on. Joe's father states that no matter how confident they were about the marriage he was scared probably by the way people would look at them which shows deviance. Joe's father is also making it all about him saying how it isn't fair to him. It should be about how they feel about each other not others feelings. Rose005
In John Gray’s book “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” he talks about how men don’t like to change or “fix” anything unless it is broken, how they need acceptance, and that because they rarely every ask for help it is important when they do. These aspects are lit up within this movie- even this clip alone. John gives Joey’s parents the ultimatum of complete acceptance or no marriage at all. He really thrives on getting their marriage approved by her parents. It most likely is because he knows that society will not accept their marriage with open arms so at the very least he wants her parents to. Joey’s dad never realized there was anything that was wrong with his sense of equal opportunities until he was confronted with this ultimatum. All of the pressure that is being put on him to say yes and the fact that he is hesitating to approve makes him question whether or not his morals are broken/ wrong. This really hurts him and stresses him out even more, but because men “aren’t supposed to talk about their feelings” he has to keep it all bottled up. That makes the talks that he has with John- the real, truthful thinking talks even more meaningful. His biggest concern isn’t John being black, it’s the issues they would face as an open couple. He would have to face his daughter go through hardships she shouldn’t have to go through and that is one of the hardest things for a parent to see. John understands this because he was once a dad and he doesn’t want anything to come between that family relationship. This entire movie is centered around family. Accepting a newly created family, old families being expanded, John even had a family before he met Joey. Because this movie was created in the 1960’s families were typically male dominated, but it’s truly the females that bring the men around to their senses. Gray said that all men have a secret knight in shining armor that wants to protect and make happy the women they love. Spoopy005
When watching this clip it showed the difference in acceptance vs Joey's father time and today thoughts of interracial marriage. Knowingly it was going to cause some type of conflict Joey and John were determined to be together. John even stated that Joey was so sure of her parents acceptance of how her father bought her up was an example of being bought up a certain way reflects the way you act once you're older "you are a reflection of your parents." Deviant behavior stated as soon as a white woman invited a African American male to have dinner with her family to break the news of their new love and marriage which was very unacceptable back in the day. When mentioning the struggle the children John and Joey children would have the father was in denial of accepting social changes and that the world us is evolving. tracker005
There is no doubt that Joey and John love each other. They both know the troubles that their children will face in the future. Mr. Drayton coming out and saying he is scared is a big step I think. And he is also coming to terms with Joey and John getting married. Back when this movie was made is was very deviant for an interracial couple to be getting married, but in these days it is very common. When John says he knows that his children will face problems he and Joey still believe, because the world will change someday, that their kids will be fine and that they have high hopes for them. Many movements including the civil rights movement, that began in 1954, made it possible today for interracial couples to get married and have kids. I think racism is still prevalent today but not nearly as much as back in the fifties and sixties. Steelers005
generally, in traditional the man is head of the household and everyone should follow the head of the house, hence where the saying man of the house came from. today society has deviated from this rule and now homes are being ran by women, since today women are gaining status almost equivalent to the men. Since the 60s we have deviated from our traditional views and actions by letting, women become of status. In the video, Dr. prentice and joey’s father and talking about her future. Their mothers have agreed with the marriage and are fine going ahead with it, but the fathers are hesitant about letting it happen. When they sit down to talk, they are basically deciding for her. This also how patriarchy is, in some cultures if a man wants to marry a woman, he would have to go to her father and negotiate and arrange things for her. Also when they discuss their children joeys father worries about the child and the troubles they may have ahead of them. Dr. prentice knows about the hardships that are to come. Joey doesn’t see the troubles she sees a bright future for their children. This points out how she is color blind, this shows her deviance from the older generation from the younger. Her father may see things but she doesn’t see them at all. It’s probably based on the nature of how he was raised, which shows his concerns. But with Joey she grew up in a whole other generation, and she was exposed to other cultures and such. They both just came from Hawaii; in Hawaii no such laws were passed to discriminate others. Our President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii of a white mother and black father. In a biography I read his mother Ann Dunham remained in Hawaii because during that time there was heavy racism in the states not, implying there was racism in Hawaii. Honeytea005
Race is an obvious theme through out this movie and seems to exchange authoritative roles between patriarchs. In this particular clip we see the patriarch- Matt Drayton- demonstrate his role of the father; in respect to marriage of his daughter, status in society, and authority of the white male patriarch in the 1960s. One factor that makes Matt the highest patriarch, is the traditional approval Dr. Prentice wants to marry Joey. Dr. Prentice wants to follow tradition in respecting the opinion of the father of his bride. Another reason Matt's role is above Dr. Prentice is he is an upper class white male in San Francisco in 1967, no matter how renowned established, or how old Dr. Prentice is, his race limits his deserved and earned status in society. It is apparent that with out his achieved status, Dr. Prentice would have a much more difficult time swaying his white counterparts. In the same respect, no matter how liberal and progressive Matt Drayton portrays to be, race was a heavier mater in the 60s and thus prejudice weighs on Drayton's approval. Gender roles are also evident in this scene in relation to the fact that Joey is not present to discuss her major part of the marriage in question. Previously in the film Joey’s position on race, and marriage is well established. Joey acts in the way she was raised, that skin color should not matter in love. She confides only with her mother who agrees with her but also has no say in the matter. Dr. Prentice even goes as far as making a promise to Matt to only marry with his approval. This disregards and delegitimizes his future bride. Race and gender as overlying themes allow a small insight in to society during the post WW2 era. –jimmys005
The scene here is when the father is speaking to his possible son in law about what him and his daughter could and will face in society he also asks him do he realize if they had kids what they will face. Sidney tells him he does understand what him and if married soon to be wife along with the kids are up against, and that he is willing to ride that train in deal with whatever the outcome maybe. The patriarch of the daughter family tells him that he also scared to face them being in a relationship he wonders how and what his daughter thinks life will be even with her understanding that all of society will not acknowledge them as a couple. Another thing that stood out in the video clip was when he stated to him that Joey had said that her father was a stand up type of man and believed in equality. That however contradicts his true natural reality because if he truly believed in what joey supposedly said then his daughter dating out the race will never be such a big issue, so that goes to show that some people raise their kids one way so that they could be upstanding citizens in society, however never reveling what they really feel internally. Which is mind blowing how could you fight for one thing at the front door but behind close door has a whole another stands on that same topic or issue. My thought on the scene is that we all may come to a time where our words expressed to one another can either be beneficial or even tamper your own beliefs, but once his father came around to accepting what he knew he was going to face he was able to bring everyone together. Leathas005
A father sitting down to discuss the topic of marriage with the suitor for his daughter’s hand in marriage. Nothing wrong with this idea at all, an everyday occurrence, yet the problem with race has made this a challenging concept for all involved. There is the patriarchal response from Mr. Drayton, because he is the man of this family and what he has to say is important to all that are involved. Deviant behavior on behalf of Joanna and John, knowing that they started on a path that will be viewed with hostility, prejudice, bigotry, and ignorance. The matriarchal position as both mothers realize that this decision should be about what their children want, and how their thoughts and feelings should be what matters most, but they fall into the same role of subservient wife to the patriarchal patterns invoked by the men of the family. Even in this short clip we observe the pressure of how Mr. Drayton, though a free thinking liberal, who believes in equality and has no acceptance for racism, worries about what society is going to say, or how they will act towards the children of this union. Joanna believes that her parents will be happy for her and that her father will accept “with open arms” this joyous announcement. But as Drayton and John sit talking it is not a man to man conversation, nor is it a father and perspective son in law. It is a White man speaking to a black man about the possibility of them getting married at a time when interracial marriage was illegal in more than half of the states in the country at that time. There is real emotion as they both discuss what the future will hold. In today’s society there is more acceptance of interracial marriage because there has been a greater awareness being taught and shared. During the late 50’s into the 60’s and on into the 70’s there was still the atmosphere of anger and prejudice still rampant due to the lack of social awareness. People were still reeling from all the changes being brought to the forefront and not being prepared for these changes. If you have been raised to see a person the way your parents looked at that same person, there might be a challenge for you to make the correct or right choice. Seoulman005
In the video, the dad talks about how the consequences his daughter and John's children will have. He ask if they know what will happen to them and the words for it. He is referring to the child rearing part for them. Back in the 1960's blacks and whites would ever have children. Interracial marriage was actually illegal in about 16 states. My professor did say that long before that they would do extramarital sex but they would never go as far as marrying another. This is a break to both families. Where as both families are looking at the outside effects of them marrying each other and Joey and John are ignoring those effects for their own love. He ask John how does he feel about the problem with the children but he takes it as a joke. He goes on to ask how would he feel about his reaction to his daughter and John's marriage. In Joey's family it is very patriarchal. The father runs all the rules and that is exactly the same in John's family. As referred in the book, the families thought they passed down their social placement meaning passing down their beliefs to their children, which didn't happen. Their beliefs were same race marriage like all the other generations before them in their family but both of their kids didn't believe in that way of life. It says in our books that most people will marry inside their own race or people like themselves. Another point hitting on in this video is social class. Would the father even be having this conversation with John if he wasn't as successful as he is? Or vise-versa and Joey wasn't as successful and have the things she had. Would there be a conversation? It even states that most spouses in marriage share similar backgrounds. John or Joey don't and that is another thing they aren't looking at.
John Prentice and Jody Drayton were acting as deviant while being in an interracial relationship during the late 1960s. They were deviant because interracial relationships or marriage were illegal in 16 states still. During this time period people believe this was socially normal. Now a day there is no issue with interracial marriage or dating. It’s becoming more and more normal. You see it every day. Also them just meeting and nothing knowing each other was deviant. They had only met while on a vacation in Hawaii and known each other for week. After that week that were wanting to get married. Both the Prentice family and Drayton family were a patriarchy family. The fathers finally say was going to decide if John and Jody could get married. If their fathers weren’t going to give them their blessing, then they wouldn’t have been able to get married. Now a day not every family is formed like this. There are more families headed by woman as the main money provider or as the only parent. It’s more of an equal house hold between the mother and father. Patriarchy still happens in preindustrial societies but in America women has developed more rights and freedom. The family status in society is a big issue. The Drayton’s were in upper class of society as Mr. Drayton being in politics and Mrs. Drayton being an owner of an art studio. With John Prentice being a well-known doctor and Mr. Drayton doing a background check on him to make sure who he really was Mr. Drayton gave his blessing for them to get married. If John Prentice had a normal everything jobs like teacher or post office worker, I don’t believe Mr. Drayton would have given his blessing. People that are in high society positions normally don’t marry or date outside of their societies positions. They want to carry on their family’s tradition of being in high society. Cardinals005
In the video, the dad talks about how the consequences his daughter and John's children will have. He ask if they know what will happen to them and the words for it. He is referring to the child rearing part for them. Back in the 1960's blacks and whites would ever have children. Interracial marriage was actually illegal in about 16 states. My professor did say that long before that they would do extramarital sex but they would never go as far as marrying another. This is a break to both families. Where as both families are looking at the outside effects of them marrying each other and Joey and John are ignoring those effects for their own love. He ask John how does he feel about the problem with the children but he takes it as a joke. He goes on to ask how would he feel about his reaction to his daughter and John's marriage. In Joey's family it is very patriarchal. The father runs all the rules and that is exactly the same in John's family. As referred in the book, the families thought they passed down their social placement meaning passing down their beliefs to their children, which didn't happen. Their beliefs were same race marriage like all the other generations before them in their family but both of their kids didn't believe in that way of life. It says in our books that most people will marry inside their own race or people like themselves. Another point hitting on in this video is social class. Would the father even be having this conversation with John if he wasn't as successful as he is? Or vise-versa and Joey wasn't as successful and have the things she had. Would there be a conversation? It even states that most spouses in marriage share similar backgrounds. John or Joey don't and that is another thing they aren't looking at. Dolla005
Sister deviance was definitely at dinner in this movie. There were many points of deviance. Two families at a dinner table back then was very deviant. A black older man being with a white woman was also very deviant. The white woman being a black man home for dinner was deviant. The black wife telling the white father that he was wrong for not understanding how in love they were was another form of deviance. The Joey’s mother going against her husband for her daughter also was deviante. The black maid Tilly was being deviant toward Joey because she was the help and she had no business telling Joey what she should be doing. Due to the fact that back in those day many and if not all white family had black maids. Back in the 1960’s it was very easy to show a form of deviance because patriarchy was the form of social organization that which males dominate females. Patriarchy back in those days rules the house. At the end of the movie the white father jumped on board with his daughter's decision. The black father was not on board and he said he never will be. Did you notice how the white father told John and Joey that John’s father will be on board one day and he will get him there. That’s where patriarchy comes in as well because what make that Joey’s father feel he has to have the last word. It was his household so therefore he had the final say. Nowadays patriarchy doesn't run the house as much it is more monarchy. Where there are single family homes where the woman are taking charge now in the home. Cupcake005...
I feel that the main subject matter at issue in this clip has to do with how society at the time viewed miscegenation and what effect would it have on the children. Joey was said to be an optimist in that her children could be president of the U.S. I think she is a little too optimistic in thinking that the prejudices would change within a decade or two. Especially since even before the start of the 60s people had already started the fight for equality to end the segregation. Lindon B Johnson attempted this in 64 but people found flaws in the system and segregation was still an issue even into the 70s. At the end of the clip Sidney told Spencer that he was told that Spencer was a liberal and have supported such events in his career. That was not an excuse about the time that was allotted to Spencer to make a decision that would ultimately affect his daughter and his grandchildren. In other words, he is a liberal and will support the wishes of his daughter and Sidney and will not become a hinder to their choices in life. But Spencer’s worries were not the fact that he had to make a choice that went with an interracial relationship on the contrary he was more concerned with treatment that they and their children would have to face in society. You can say that their behavior is deviant and that it would be viewed as deviant in terms of the society whether it be members of either culture. When it came to Spencer he did not see the behavior as deviant as much as he was afraid of what might happen to then while in public. The arguments Spencer had was what society’s opinion was and what the society would do to them. This was a time of lynching’s and battering’s to those members of the African American culture. So not only did Spencer have to fear of what would happen to Sidney but also everyone associated with him such as Joey or the children that they may have one day. BHL005
Well to start off I agree with the fact that things were probably moving far too quickly. Yes, it was good for them to be moving past racism but unfortunately many other people at the time were not and when you throw things at people like that it can cause a lot of negative effects and results then you would have if you had given them a little more time to process things. When people begin feeling that they have been pressured into a corner they tend to get into a Fight or flight response which in this case would be accepting it begrudgingly or fighting against it. So in hindsight I am not really surprised that the father acted the way he did. People need time to accept and change things peacefully and will every one accept it? No. sadly we as humans are sinful creatures and no matter what we want there will always be someone out there who will be racist. This fact also brings me around to the case of the father. For the father I do not believe that his dilemma was that he was feeling racist but that he was scared, scared for what would happen to his daughter and her fiancé because of those people who will never change. We don’t talk about it a lot, but there were a lot of people who were mistreated and even sometimes killed for having interracial relationships at the time. This is why I think the father acted the way he did because he was terrified about what might happen to his daughter.DCBade005
This movie involved two very different families coming to grips with the impending interracial family in the 60's. During the 60's racial problems were in the for front. Loving v. Virginia was passed 6 months before where the US Supreme Court said all states had to recognize interracial marriage as legal. This movie was written to put the most positive approach on a very controversial subject. The white father was a liberal all his life as well as the mother but never thought about his very own daughter marrying a black man. He had John checked out right away and wanted to talk to John about probable problems they would face. In the 60's fathers were in charge of the house and made important decisions so as the patriarch of the family he was asked for his blessing on the marriage. The movie really deviated from the norm in presenting the interracial marriage and the families reactions. The main black man John was not the typical black man with his college education and success as a doctor. They chose Sidney Portier purposely because he was an excellent example himself with his educated language and success as an actor. Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn were upper income and John's family was from middle class. By using deviant characters and showing the interracial problem in a positive light the movie was a box office hit and a good message of acceptance was relayed to thousands. Karl Marx would say it was a farce because black people were fighting for an equal education, freedom to marry who they wanted and freedom in the work place - unlike the circumstances in the movie. I feel the movie was a help the because it reached thousands.Grandma005
When watching this short clip of the movie I noticed many things. Like how the father sublimely stresses over the issue on how john and his daughter will be treated in the future. He also worries about how their kids, and his grandchildren will be judged and treated as they enter this world. His beliefs has made him very conscious and aware of the misjudgment and treatment that his daughter and his future grandchildren will have to face as they progress with their relationship. He states he may not be a racist , but his beliefs and how he sees things as fit are interfering with him being happy for his daughter and her marriage. Which brings up the topic deviance. During that set time period interracial relationship were not common and also illegal in 16 states at the time. Marrying or even courting someone from the opposite race was seen as deviant and not apart of the norm. That's how the dad and his generation were brought up when viewing interracial relationships. He didn't think to teach his daughter not to marry outside of her race because it wasn't apart of the norm and did not expect her to even have an attraction to another race , especially not an African American at the time. As the movie progressed both families looked to the dad for the last word. Like when john had a private conversation with his wife's father he makes it clear that he does not accept their relationship or approve, he would not go through with the marriage. When this scene took place it showed a sense of patriarchy. During that time period the dad always had the last word and say in Anything no matter what. But in society today that has changed a lot. It has changed tremendously because a lot of families are made up of single moms who take care of everything and have the last say in anything. Another thing that Has changed in society today is that more dads are becoming stay at home dads. Which was rare back then because dads were meant to be seen as the bread winners of the family. Society has conformed and has changed our social views and values on a lot of things that harshly contrasts with views and values that are set in the movie.food005
Race may always be an issue but throughout the recent generations, it has become more common to see a white woman with a black man or a black man with a white woman. In this video, they were talking about when they would have children and the problems that would come along with having children that would be a mixed race. Joanna did not see a problem with having children of another race because she just saw them as being her children and she thought that they would still become the President of the United States regardless of their color. John said a marriage is not a marriage unless there are children involved. He knew that it may cause problems or a controversy or that his children may come across problems as they are growing up, but he knew that he could deal with them and that he would be able to get through the problems that they were going to come across. I do not see anything wrong with an interracial marriage and children that are mixed in color because I think that if the people are happy, then we should let them be happy. The fact that Virginia banned interracial couples to marry or have children in 1961 is a little crazy to me. Since when were states allowed to judge couples based on their race. Race is just a factor of what makes people the person they are and who they are. I am glad that Joanna and John stuck with their relationship and are willing to still have children regardless of the problems that they may come across. Bball005
Patriarchy was displayed from the father because he was very dominate. He had the final say. Men always felt as if they dominated women back in their earlier times even now it's still the same. Families has always viewed it's financial security and range of opportunities when it came to who should be where. Family usually agree with what the man of the house says. Deviance is a basic part of social organization. By defining deviance society sets it's moral boundaries. Labeling theory also can be applied because it's not so much to what people do but how they responded to their actions of the father. Intragenerational social mobility is what they feel and how much their opinions doesnt matter. The father was looking out for his family and their roles and statues. The social power of the society and marriage played a major role also. I'll consider it deviant. 12mc-005
In the film, “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?” a story of an interracial marriage to be, set in the mid 1960’s - is a sociologist's paradise. Riddled with expressive examples of sexist, racist, and ageist behavior it’s a clear window into some of the hardships and rough realities that plagued circa 1960’s America. In the scene featured above, initially we notice two powerful main characters discussing the potential issues with the recently presented marriage of a black man to a white woman. Now, while the exchange between these two was critical, it comes right out and shows us that the only opinions that, “really,” matter and should be taken to heart, are that of the men involved. Now, while we could potentially consider this behavior deviant - neglecting the opinion of the women in considering potential struggles, back then I believe it’s fair to say it wasn’t necessarily deviant, and might go as far to say it was common. As we move on, we feel the extreme pressure the racial divide placed on both parties involved. Depicted throughout the film we see the struggles of a set of parents coming to terms with their children engaging in something unheard of back when they were finding their partners, and it’s all as a result of the color of their skin. Reflecting on this in common day, we as a society would like to probably claim that this is no longer an issue, and objecting to interracial relationships is the deviant behavior. Though it may seem faux pas in more quickly adapting communities, it’s not out of the norm for societal lag to rear it’s ugly head, and show us that all over people - with a fair amount of individuals in the United States, still to this day in 2017 find it strange, or morally suspect for races to intermingle. Luckily we have seen the majority switch over the last 40 years, and we see that the obtuse, even questionable, behavior is that of those speaking out against relationships shared between different racial partners. All of this showing us that though there are some stragglers displaying an opposite deviant behavior today, society is moving ahead regardless of the racial, sex, and age-driven divisions present in this artistic depiction of an interracial engagement in the 1960’s. 35G005 - Missed Wednesday, April 19th with instructor's approval in advance, late submission.
The video of John and Mr. Drayton is a conversation that I feel as if it is almost common for every future son-in-law and future father in-law have. It’s all about the future. How are you going to take care of the kids? What if this and that happens. And I feel like the most important question asked is done by Mr. Drayton when he asks john if he understands what his children might have to face in the future. At the time with the race rallies and fight for equality all around it was a very hard time for African American people. Problems that many white people didn’t have to go through to be treated equal. This is something I see Mr. Drayton fears mainly because he knows the world is not as optimistic as his daughter when it comes to seeing everyone equally. And doesn’t want his family to be treated in such ways. However John doesn’t look as worried when he answers Mr. Drayton’s questions. I think this is for three reasons, the first being he knows his children will face troubles but not just for being “mixed” but for just growing up, he understands that there is many hardships one overcomes when becoming an adult. The second being he sees what is going on in Montgomery and other parts of the south. And he knows that the black people and putting up to much of a fight not to lose. I feel that he is very confident in the MLK movement unlike Dr. Drayton. Dr. Drayton only having his doubts due to his age, no one has done anything like the civil rights movement in his time so he’s worried it might fail. Yet the last reason being probably the most important is that Joanna feels the same way as John about both reasons one and two. Creating a special bond that linked them up in the first place. Bikemaker005
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ReplyDeleteIn regards to family: John implies that a marriage is not a marriage without children. These days, this couldn’t be further from the truth, fewer and fewer people in the United States and in fact many places all over the world are having a great deal less children. In fact, some couples (homosexual couples) cannot have children at all and are still accepted as families. Admittedly though, the presence of a child does bring to mind stronger imagery of family in my mind than in less conventional marriage arrangements without children.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to deviance and patriarchy: John brings up how Joanna is completely neutral, and even optimistic about the position of black people in society, citing that Joanna feels every one of their children would be the president of the United States and all have colorful administrations. He also mentions that Her father was the one that made her that way with his liberal teachings – the implication here is that her father is not adhering to his own philosophies that he used to raise his daughter. This is an interesting manifestation of personal contradiction that has clearly arisen as cognitive dissonance when her father was confronted with having to practice what he preaches. This is enforced even more when John cites Joanna as having praised her father as fighting his whole life against racial discrimination and saying that she was certain her parents would welcome her with open arms. John seems a lot more realistic about the situation because of his upbringing. In his family, he most likely had to experience a great deal of racial prejudice first-hand. This is a good example of how perception of political climates is not an objective thing, but subjective. Thanks to Joanna’s upbringing, her idea of what is deviant has become entirely anomalous and hyper-progressive for the time. This whole contradiction between teachings and practice by Joanna’s father could also be perceived as a symptom of patriarchy during the time. Joanna’s father feels that he has the moral and authoritative high ground to the extent that he can preach to his daughter philosophies which he considers ethically correct, while at least initially contradicting these teachings by exercising his power of authority over the couple and trying to convince them that it was wrong to get married (while never admitting he was wrong in his raising of Joanna). Poet005
In this clip from Guess who’s coming to dinner the father and the doctor are talking about the problems that may arise from the doctor marrying his white daughter. They both believe that the world is changing but they also both realize that there will be issues that people have with the two of them getting married. Back in this time period a white and african american person being married was considered deviant. Now these such things happen every day and nobody bats an eye at it. This is very true that just before 2009 there had not been a black president. I found it strange that in this movie there didn’t seem to be an issue between the two families, like both fathers seemed to almost get along when talking about the matters so I don’t see what the issue with their children getting married was. And even further back around the time this movie took place there was supposedly never going to be any african americans on professional sports teams. Fast forward a few decades and here many of these sports have many African Americans who are very well known for being outstanding in their respected sports. I find it strange that on both families the men seemed to have the final say in whether the two lovers could stay together or have the blessings to be married. Nowadays it almost seems more like the women of the households are in control. In my own experience my step mother was in more control than my father was that was partially due to the fact that he was always away working so she was in charge there. I feel as though it has equalled out over the years and the women now have more say in matters such as this. I see a trend over time issues people have with people loving differently than what society is used to cause uprising. Like in this movie the African American man and the white woman were going to marry each other even though they knew what issues they and their children could face in the future. But it is people like this that start bringing change to the world. It gives others the courage to stand up and do what they believe in and after so long the rest of society just has to face that there is a social change and accept the changes with open arms. Gym005
ReplyDeleteFamily means a lot in the old times as well as the new. That has not changed. What has though been that the father in this movie was so above everyone else and had the power to tell his son and wife what they could do and what they could not. He made the decisions because he was the “man.” Although, as time is progressing, things are also changing. The women in more modern times now are starting to have a say so and the choices being made are around 50/50 between the two parents. Reflecting back to the movie, the dads of both the son and daughter were against the marriage and because in their time, a black and white getting married was wrong, it was soon to be wrong in their kid’s generation as well. As the two dad’s disagreed with their child’s choices, the mother’s, I believe, were more open to the idea because it was their kid. Their child was happy and that is all that they had wanted. Everyone knew this whole interracial marriage was not normal and was not going to be seen as okay from other people’s eyes, but that is not what had mattered. Happiness plays such a huge role in one’s life and it can impact how you live if you are happy. Interracial marriages are becoming more common and although, the whole idea that blacks should be with blacks and whites should be with whites, people are becoming more open minded to the idea of such thing. In my opinion, I think that is great. Coming from a country where states even BANNED such act to coming to a country which one can even marry the same sex as them is outstanding. Black, white, gay, straight, everyone deserves a shot at happiness. Watching this movie had opened my eyes on to the idea that people did really think this was wrong and people may always think it is, but society is changing. Society is accepting. To point out one more thing, families are being able to now make decisions as a whole instead of just having the man in the house figure everything out. That truly has changed and with that being said, “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” opened my eyes on to how things were and how things have changed. #BabyBray005.
ReplyDeleteJoanna’s father is afraid about the issues that Joanna’s and John’s kids are going to face, since they will be mixed children. But John tells his new father in law that Joanna believes that they will make a future for themselves and even become president of the United States. Both implying about the mix in race the kids will share and having equal opportunity due to their skin color. Mr. Drayton in a way holds back what he really wants to say to John, about how issues with the color of the children’s skin could be a huge issue. But really never has any courage to say what he really wants to say. Mr. Drayton seems to be scared for the future for the both of them and the offspring. Another thing that I noticed in this scene is all about the offspring, where John is pushing really hard for. While Mr. Drayton doesn’t want them to rush super quickly and just wait it out. Both Joanna and John are optimistic about the world changing, while Mr. Drayton is both in a way believes that it seems the world will never change about these kinds of situations. But as well as being slightly optimistic in a way since he is saying that these kinds of feelings are changing, “right in his own backyard.” Mr. Drayton tries to also corner John in the conversation and taking the selfish route of saying that it is not fair to Mr. Drayton about this quick decision on their lives. Both John and Joanna are challenging Mr. Drayton’s Patriarchy way of thinking, since he is the man of the family and runs the family. Where all of this quick decision making is coming from Joanna, the daughter to Mr. Drayton. The last thing that John says to Mr. Drayton is what Joanna told him, how he is a lifelong fighting liberal and laughs at discrimination. Where in this case actions are speaking much louder than words, since an African American man is trying to marry their white daughter, they are super questionable about it. So maybe either Joanna or Mr. Drayton was living a lie in that whole statement. This whole scene sums up that Mr. Drayton isn’t who he said he was to his own daughter and how nervous he is in this whole situation for the family, John and Joanna, and their offspring. TB005
ReplyDeleteFamily tradition in the 60’s was ruled by patriarchy, which was one of the overruling themes of this movie. The father decides everything that goes on within the family and the household, and just the act alone of saying anything against the father was considered deviant. Looking at the way society used to be during this time period, it is safe to say that John and Joey are the most deviant types of people of their time. Not only because of their racial difference, but they also do not obey the tradition of being listening to everything their parents say without thinking differently. This is a proven pattern in newer generations, as more and more adolescents seem to be developing their own sense of ‘self’ at a much younger age. In other words, deviance is growing, hence the rapid changes our society has seen in the past 100 years. It is fair to infer that patriarchy is becoming less prominent than it used to be, which could also be why we see more deviance in newer generations. Before, the family answered to the father, and that was the end of the story. Today, there is still a boundary of respect within the household, but it is also seen as more of a democracy, as parents are treating each other as equal beings, and the majority of households are no longer traditional nuclear families. Looking at the situation from the father’s point of view, however, it is understandable as to why he initially reacted to the situation the way he did. Even though he knew that ethically, John was a person, he also knew that what his daughter and this stranger that he had just met were doing was not normal. It is imaginable that he felt an internal conflict, as what they were asking of him went against everything he was raised around. This, in no way, means that his traditions were ‘right’, but it is the realistic side of interpretation. However, with time, he decided to conform to everyone else’s points of view, which could be a microcosm of our society—if and when deviants push hard for a change, they will eventually receive it. Puppies005
ReplyDeleteTruly, deviance, family and patriarchy played a huge role in this film and even in this clip. Looking at it today, there is clearly cultural and social differences. What was unacceptable then, today is more welcome with open arms. Watching the film and the clip we as the audience of today, kind of just sit and wonder why it was so much of a big deal that they want to get married? Why does anyone else’s’ opinion matter if the two are really in love and financially stable? That’s where the deviance is so clear. Putting yourself in the fathers’ shoes, you will understand that he is just concerned. He Is worried about his and his family’s’ reputation. He is also probably worried of the safety of his daughter emotionally and physically. That is because in his time, the act of the two getting married was deviant. In a great number of states, an African American and a Caucasian getting married or just publically being together was deviant. The fact that the daughter didn’t have to much as a care in the world may have made it even more deviant. Family was important in this movie as well. Joey cared very much about her family’s opinion and what they would think about her decision. A couple may disagree with me about that statement but if she did not care, she wouldn’t have stayed that long, seeing that her daughter had disapproved very much of her plans. The ideas and opinions of the families quite minimally but still shaped the ideas of the future newlyweds. John himself made it clear that If it would not be excepted by both parties of joey’s family then he would not proceed with the marriage. The way that the father felt shaped everyone else who had found out the news that was considered familial friends as well to make them secondly think of their view on it. That brings us into patriarchy. The father since he had walked into the house, had stolen the show. The wife wouldn’t make a move without her husband. The mother for a long time did not say anything or how she truly felt about the situation in fear or how her husband would react. It was like no one else’s opinion mattered. The wife wouldn’t make a move without her husband. PurpleHearts005
ReplyDeleteIn this video clip, John and Joey’ s dad is having a conversation about the marriage. Joey’s dad brings up if they have children and the problems they might have when they get older. I can understand why Joey’s dad mentioned that because maybe they did not think of it. Majority of parents’ want the best for their kids and do not want them to have any more problems than they already going to have. Their kids would grow up knowing that their parents were not allowed to get married and what they did was wrong at that time period. By the time they get older things may have changed. Their children would kind of be an example of something bad. Because back in the 1960’s, seeing a mixed child was not normal. Society changed the way people thought about blacks and whites getting married and having mixed children. John admits that they will have problems in the future, if they continue on and have a family and they are ready to accept and face the challenges one by one as they go on. Joey’s dad admits he his scared, no matter how confident John and Joey are. I personally do not blame him; if I was in that sort of situation I would be scared as well. I would not want my grandchildren growing up thinking that they are not acceptable because their mom is white and their dad is black. They also talked about the jobs you can receive as a white man and then as a black. I believe that John brings up the fact that society is changing for a reason; I think it is because John is right it was changing and he loved Joey and nothing was going to stop him from marrying Joey besides the approval from both sets of parents. John just did not think Joey was going to move in such a fast pace with the whole idea. Honestly, I think it was good for them to have that conversation without Joey around because it gave John and Joey’s father a chance to really open up about the marriage. Also that is was a good stepping stone. I think that is part of the reason Joey’s father ended up changing his mind about the marriage at the end. -Dance005
ReplyDeleteIn the 1960’s this obviously wasn’t the family tradition and as we know was considered deviant behavior to mix races. However how could you possible say no to two couple who are highly in love and see race as a non-factor. At first it wasn’t a shock when joey’s father came in the house when everybody was outside he was under the impression that okay this is a doctor here and what about it, he never had the thought that john was there for his daughter. It took time for the realization to set in that an interracial marriage and relationship is about to happen and its going to be happening with his daughter. I feel that when her father had the time to talk to john and think about it than that made it a little better. However, when they sat down and talked about it her father explained to john what problems there were going to face. If her father was to explain the problems to joey she would understand but not quite get it as in what they were getting into and what to expect because as stated earlier she was so in love and headstrong. Some of the problems there were going to have overcome was the fact they were going to interracial children who were going to experience the racial problems as well. Despite that however they have high hopes for them and they know despite everything going on they are going to be okay and at the end of the day they don’t care what people have to say about them and their relationship this is overcoming what the “social norm is”. When you’re in love nothing should be able to stop it despite race gender and so forth. This is now our society plus more and people should just accept it and be happy with other people just being in love despite differences.
ReplyDelete-kyw005
During this scene on Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, it is pretty obvious that Mr. Drayton’s final decision determines the fate of it all. Back then, the men were the head of the household so it was only right for him to have the last say. Patriarchy was big in the 1960’s, not so much today, and John and Joey marriage really relied on his final say. In today’s society, as well as interracial marriage, patriarchy isn’t that common. Usually household decisions like this would be split 50/50. Although, to some people it is still “polite” or well-mannered to get the father’s blessing for a marriage which comes partially from the existence of patriarchy back then. In this scene, he asks John how he thinks his kid’s future will be if him and Joey go along with this marriage. It’s pretty obvious that Joey and John know they’re kids may have some problems in the future due to them being biracial, but they know they can handle anything thrown at them, especially with Joey’s optimism. During that time period, there wasn’t many people who had the optimism that Joey had about an interracial person’s future. Her opinion about her kid’s all becoming the president of the United States showed that there were some people who really saw no color, unlike most back in the 1960s and also unlike her father who really had to think about the decision of letting his white daughter marry a black male. It is totally different today because you’ll see so many more interracial couples and more acceptance of it as well. It is kind of a common part of society today and for the most part isn’t looked down upon, unless it’s a person’s personal opinion. Society as a whole has accepted interracial couples due to the protests, fights, etc., that were taken on just to get this freedom. Society has also accepted matriarchy as well seeing that most families today are led by either the mother of the household or it is split 50/50 so both mom and dad makes decisions. Women have come a long way and fought hard to get out of the position where it was just the “man’s” decision and say. In this movie, Mrs. Drayton would follow Mr. Drayton’s lead because of the huge patriarchal society that they lived in. Today, it is presented as a huge change with both patriarchy and interracial marriage. –Pizza005
ReplyDeleteIn this short clip it touches bases on how John’s and Joey’s kid would grow up if they did happen to get married. This indicates that in the 1960s mixed children were not accepted as they are now. This shows how over time race and culture has changed over time. It was not a norm in the 1960s to see a mixed kid because it was considered deviant to not only date but marry out of your race. Now of days mixed kids are seen everywhere and no one gives it a second thought. Why? Because we as a society have made it a cultural norm and have accepted that in our society. This shows how it has changed from the 1960s to today's date. This brings me to what Joey’s dad said in the clip that things are changing faster than he would like them to. This shows that he is so used to how things are and the norms that, he does not want them to change. He talks about how he was a young kid and that how he was told that African Americans would never be able to play baseball. He states that change has happened with the race issue but he still thinks that things are changing as fast as they are in his house. Joey tells John how her dad is a liberal who fights against discrimination and prejudice. You would never think he did with they way that he was acting towards them being together. Yes, he may fight against discrimination but all his values changes when it becomes his personal life. This shows that people may feel and think one way but when they are actually faced with the situation they mind quickly changes without a thought. This happens a lot with people today and in the 1960s. They may feel strong about a subject and preach about it. But how strongly can you feel about a subject or situation if you have never been in it. You never know how your mind might change if that was to happen to you. Hawk005
ReplyDeleteWhat they are discussing is very interesting they are talking about what Joey and John’s children might have to face. What they will have to face as well as having those children. Joey is very optimistic John says. Joey thinks that their kids will be the president of the United States. John says he could settle for just Secretary of State making a joke. Joey feels that the children will have a colorful administration. Joey’s dad thinks the children will have an unfair life and that they will as well. 1961 Virginia banned interracial marriages. The Lovings were prosecuted under a statute enacted in 1924 entitled "An Act to Preserve Racial Integrity." as this article talks about a family that had gotten married and then moved to a different state. In that state interracial marriage was illegal. The Lovings also had children. The children had to face a lot of difficulties at school.”the law stated that children born out of such a union were deemed in the eyes of the State to be illegitimate and without the protections and privileges accorded to the children of lawfully wedded parents.” That is how the law was then. The children were not protected by anyone. They do not have rights basically. Unlike children to the same race parents. The children were illegitimate in the eyes of the law. That is crazy to think about now because now interracial marriages happen everyday. It is very acceptable to marry someone of another race now. The children are accepted now, not illegitimate. Joey’s dad is not looking at John like he is just a man as John sees himself as. Joey’s dad is seeing him as a black man, yes he respects John that he is a doctor and he sees him as a very important man. But Joey’s dad is not looking at John as Joey sees John. It is sad because now people do not judge like they did then. Now it is so acceptable to marry anyone, and have kids. That then is was so frowned upon. elephants005
ReplyDeleteFamilies, Race and Ethnicity, and deviance are the three themes/chapters I chose to write about in my paper. Many different aspects are taken into account when trying to compare these three themes from the 1960’s to today. Deviance is very controversial, a lot of people have many different opinions on what makes a deviant act. Deviant acts can change based on cultural norms. We see how parents can have a direct or indirect control over how their kids behave, which can cause them to be deviant or not. Parents should be considered role models for their children. We have seen that kids act based off of how their parents act. Homosexuality used to be considered a deviant act, as it was illegal in the 50’s and 60’s. It is now socially acceptable, and many states have legalized same sex marriage. Families have changed dramatically from the time of the 60’s to today. Divorce was rare, and kids weren't living in one-parent households in the 1960’s. Also, a lot of people have different opinions on what makes up a family. Is a family made up of all family members including extended family? Or is it just the people in the nuclear family? Family makeup has changed over the past 40-50 years. During the 60’s a lot of marriages were of the same social classes. Whites were marrying whites, and African Americans were marrying African Americans. It is to my knowledge that polygamy, polygyny, and polyandry marriages are very uncommon in the United States. Many religions and churches have banned these types of marriages. The mormon church is still one of the few churches that still allows these types of marriages. As we all know a lot of peoples views are different on race and ethnicity than opinions in the 60’s. There were the civil rights movements, all kinds of protests, and many African American were talked down upon because of their race. This lead to a lot of court disputes and it lead to equal rights among everyone in the United States. PAWW005
ReplyDeleteIn the scene, the most obvious element to me was patriarchy. It speaks volumes when John decides to give Joanna’s father the final decision about their relationship, revealing John’s respect for the patriarchal head of the family. The following conversation between them showed the viewers that respect for someone leads to acceptance of opinions and a willingness to listen to ideas, even if they are opposing. However, I wish the movie would’ve presented the mother as having an equal standing of respect with John rather than him only speaking with the father. That aspect of the movie made it seem like John didn’t value Joanna’s mother’s opinion even though she has just as close of a bond with her daughter as her husband does. If the mother would’ve been shown as more equal to the father, that would’ve told the audience that people deserve respect, no matter what their gender. Even if an individual disagrees with someone else’s views, it’s common decency to respect them enough to let them state their peace uninterrupted.
ReplyDeleteFamily plays a major role in developing the movie, as shown by John’s unrelenting persistence that Joanna’s marriage couldn’t negatively affect her family. He stated that if him marrying Joanna would cause a problem with her family, he would withdraw himself and that is just the epitome of family values. John appreciates and admires Joanna’s relationship with her family, so he is willing to lose the woman he’s in love with for her own good. His strong family values are apparent to Joanna’s father and that earns him a little respect that leads to his approval of the marriage.
Deviance is the other leading theme in this particular scene and the two men seem to have completely different ideas about the deviance of their situation. Joanna’s father seems to believe that deviance is measured by society, or that right and wrong is based majorly on what everybody else thinks about you. Joanna’s father adheres to social norms to remain a part of a society which mostly agrees that marriage shouldn’t be interracial, a common belief in the 1960s. John, conversely, is displayed as focused on his own internal morals. He knows what he believes is right and wrong and follows that instinct rather than following what society says is right. In the movie, deviance serves to create social change. In the year of the movie’s production, 1968, interracial marriage was only just made legal throughout the United States. If people like John and Joanna didn’t exist and fight for the right to marry regardless of race, the United States would still be in that archaic, racist mindset. John’s deviance led to two families and a housekeeper to see their interracial love as what it is: love. Lasagna005
Within this portion of the film Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner by Stanley Kramer there are multiple forms of sociology such as: patriarchy, deviance and social classes within the United States. First off, in this video the father of Joey, Matt Drayton, is communicating with Joey’s finance, John. At this moment you can see that there is a direct form of patriarchy. This is due to Matt facilitating this conversations by speaking for the entire family. As this is being displayed, Matt is acting as the head of the family, which is the definition of patriarchy. While doing so, Matt is confronting the acts of deviance that is occurring between the two young lovers. For example, Matt addresses the encounters that his potential grandchildren will face, the shunning that will be displayed by external members of their direct social group, and the occupations that this potential multiracial children could obtain. With their grandchildren being raised as young multiracial individuals they could be face bullying, or other social conflicts. John and Joey both will be looked down upon by members throughout society, because interracial couples are examples of acts of deviance. Also, Joey have hopes of their children obtaining lead, white collar occupations that are usually withheld by members of the caucasian descent. A prime example of this would be John being employed as a famous, international doctor. This is a key example, because when John announces his occupation to certain individuals it is seen as some sort of culture shock, because members of the African American society usually are not known to become doctors. What the audience does not realize is that early on during Guess Who's Coming to Dinner there was another interracial couple that just departed from the plane along with Joey and John. This displayed that acts of deviance can be influential and lead to social movements; which then leads others to join along. Social movements are important, because it influences others to be supported by being surrounded by others who have the same, or similar morals. Finally, Matt respects John as have has become a member of the same social class. For example, Matt respects John by speaking to him in the same language, and not making the language more simple. This is also a form of respect to someone of a different race, ethnicity, and culture.
ReplyDeleteS&D005
When John and Joe's father were talking her father was only thinking about what a male would do in that situation. He showed patriarchy by saying he shouldn't do it and felt Joe's opinion didn't matter. Deviance was shown when Joe's father remarked how their kids would be treated and how he thought they were rushing into things. Joe's father and mother were the same way when they were younger but have forgotten what it felt like to be in love at first.People may assume that other people find deviance comical but it is not. Towards the end of the movie the more that Joe's father thought about the situation he realized that his wife and him were the same way they were. They didn't care about what people thought they only saw each other and how they felt and the rest of the worlds opinion didn't matter. As long as they have each other they didn't care how deviant people were towards them. When he was talking to Joe's father he said that he said if he didn't have the children he couldn't call it a marriage which didn't make sense to me.If they truly love each other having kids should not matter. Joe's father brought up the point that the children would have many problems but Joe sees that they could even be president. A lot of the older generations have different ways on how they view life and no matter what you say sometimes you can't change it.Man of the house held all the power back in that time period. Joe's father was against the marriage of his daughter and an African American man. In the 1960’s woman rarely had a say in anything that was going on. Joe's father states that no matter how confident they were about the marriage he was scared probably by the way people would look at them which shows deviance. Joe's father is also making it all about him saying how it isn't fair to him. It should be about how they feel about each other not others feelings.
ReplyDeleteRose005
In John Gray’s book “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” he talks about how men don’t like to change or “fix” anything unless it is broken, how they need acceptance, and that because they rarely every ask for help it is important when they do. These aspects are lit up within this movie- even this clip alone. John gives Joey’s parents the ultimatum of complete acceptance or no marriage at all. He really thrives on getting their marriage approved by her parents. It most likely is because he knows that society will not accept their marriage with open arms so at the very least he wants her parents to. Joey’s dad never realized there was anything that was wrong with his sense of equal opportunities until he was confronted with this ultimatum. All of the pressure that is being put on him to say yes and the fact that he is hesitating to approve makes him question whether or not his morals are broken/ wrong. This really hurts him and stresses him out even more, but because men “aren’t supposed to talk about their feelings” he has to keep it all bottled up. That makes the talks that he has with John- the real, truthful thinking talks even more meaningful. His biggest concern isn’t John being black, it’s the issues they would face as an open couple. He would have to face his daughter go through hardships she shouldn’t have to go through and that is one of the hardest things for a parent to see. John understands this because he was once a dad and he doesn’t want anything to come between that family relationship. This entire movie is centered around family. Accepting a newly created family, old families being expanded, John even had a family before he met Joey. Because this movie was created in the 1960’s families were typically male dominated, but it’s truly the females that bring the men around to their senses. Gray said that all men have a secret knight in shining armor that wants to protect and make happy the women they love. Spoopy005
ReplyDeleteWhen watching this clip it showed the difference in acceptance vs Joey's father time and today thoughts of interracial marriage. Knowingly it was going to cause some type of conflict Joey and John were determined to be together. John even stated that Joey was so sure of her parents acceptance of how her father bought her up was an example of being bought up a certain way reflects the way you act once you're older "you are a reflection of your parents." Deviant behavior stated as soon as a white woman invited a African American male to have dinner with her family to break the news of their new love and marriage which was very unacceptable back in the day. When mentioning the struggle the children John and Joey children would have the father was in denial of accepting social changes and that the world us is evolving. tracker005
ReplyDeleteThere is no doubt that Joey and John love each other. They both know the troubles that their children will face in the future. Mr. Drayton coming out and saying he is scared is a big step I think. And he is also coming to terms with Joey and John getting married. Back when this movie was made is was very deviant for an interracial couple to be getting married, but in these days it is very common. When John says he knows that his children will face problems he and Joey still believe, because the world will change someday, that their kids will be fine and that they have high hopes for them. Many movements including the civil rights movement, that began in 1954, made it possible today for interracial couples to get married and have kids. I think racism is still prevalent today but not nearly as much as back in the fifties and sixties.
ReplyDeleteSteelers005
generally, in traditional the man is head of the household and everyone should follow the head of the house, hence where the saying man of the house came from. today society has deviated from this rule and now homes are being ran by women, since today women are gaining status almost equivalent to the men. Since the 60s we have deviated from our traditional views and actions by letting, women become of status. In the video, Dr. prentice and joey’s father and talking about her future. Their mothers have agreed with the marriage and are fine going ahead with it, but the fathers are hesitant about letting it happen. When they sit down to talk, they are basically deciding for her. This also how patriarchy is, in some cultures if a man wants to marry a woman, he would have to go to her father and negotiate and arrange things for her. Also when they discuss their children joeys father worries about the child and the troubles they may have ahead of them. Dr. prentice knows about the hardships that are to come. Joey doesn’t see the troubles she sees a bright future for their children. This points out how she is color blind, this shows her deviance from the older generation from the younger. Her father may see things but she doesn’t see them at all. It’s probably based on the nature of how he was raised, which shows his concerns. But with Joey she grew up in a whole other generation, and she was exposed to other cultures and such. They both just came from Hawaii; in Hawaii no such laws were passed to discriminate others. Our President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii of a white mother and black father. In a biography I read his mother Ann Dunham remained in Hawaii because during that time there was heavy racism in the states not, implying there was racism in Hawaii. Honeytea005
ReplyDeleteRace is an obvious theme through out this movie and seems to exchange authoritative roles between patriarchs. In this particular clip we see the patriarch- Matt Drayton- demonstrate his role of the father; in respect to marriage of his daughter, status in society, and authority of the white male patriarch in the 1960s. One factor that makes Matt the highest patriarch, is the traditional approval Dr. Prentice wants to marry Joey. Dr. Prentice wants to follow tradition in respecting the opinion of the father of his bride. Another reason Matt's role is above Dr. Prentice is he is an upper class white male in San Francisco in 1967, no matter how renowned established, or how old Dr. Prentice is, his race limits his deserved and earned status in society. It is apparent that with out his achieved status, Dr. Prentice would have a much more difficult time swaying his white counterparts. In the same respect, no matter how liberal and progressive Matt Drayton portrays to be, race was a heavier mater in the 60s and thus prejudice weighs on Drayton's approval. Gender roles are also evident in this scene in relation to the fact that Joey is not present to discuss her major part of the marriage in question. Previously in the film Joey’s position on race, and marriage is well established. Joey acts in the way she was raised, that skin color should not matter in love. She confides only with her mother who agrees with her but also has no say in the matter. Dr. Prentice even goes as far as making a promise to Matt to only marry with his approval. This disregards and delegitimizes his future bride. Race and gender as overlying themes allow a small insight in to society during the post WW2 era. –jimmys005
ReplyDeleteThe scene here is when the father is speaking to his possible son in law about what him and his daughter could and will face in society he also asks him do he realize if they had kids what they will face. Sidney tells him he does understand what him and if married soon to be wife along with the kids are up against, and that he is willing to ride that train in deal with whatever the outcome maybe. The patriarch of the daughter family tells him that he also scared to face them being in a relationship he wonders how and what his daughter thinks life will be even with her understanding that all of society will not acknowledge them as a couple. Another thing that stood out in the video clip was when he stated to him that Joey had said that her father was a stand up type of man and believed in equality. That however contradicts his true natural reality because if he truly believed in what joey supposedly said then his daughter dating out the race will never be such a big issue, so that goes to show that some people raise their kids one way so that they could be upstanding citizens in society, however never reveling what they really feel internally. Which is mind blowing how could you fight for one thing at the front door but behind close door has a whole another stands on that same topic or issue. My thought on the scene is that we all may come to a time where our words expressed to one another can either be beneficial or even tamper your own beliefs, but once his father came around to accepting what he knew he was going to face he was able to bring everyone together. Leathas005
ReplyDeleteA father sitting down to discuss the topic of marriage with the suitor for his daughter’s hand in marriage. Nothing wrong with this idea at all, an everyday occurrence, yet the problem with race has made this a challenging concept for all involved. There is the patriarchal response from Mr. Drayton, because he is the man of this family and what he has to say is important to all that are involved. Deviant behavior on behalf of Joanna and John, knowing that they started on a path that will be viewed with hostility, prejudice, bigotry, and ignorance. The matriarchal position as both mothers realize that this decision should be about what their children want, and how their thoughts and feelings should be what matters most, but they fall into the same role of subservient wife to the patriarchal patterns invoked by the men of the family. Even in this short clip we observe the pressure of how Mr. Drayton, though a free thinking liberal, who believes in equality and has no acceptance for racism, worries about what society is going to say, or how they will act towards the children of this union. Joanna believes that her parents will be happy for her and that her father will accept “with open arms” this joyous announcement. But as Drayton and John sit talking it is not a man to man conversation, nor is it a father and perspective son in law. It is a White man speaking to a black man about the possibility of them getting married at a time when interracial marriage was illegal in more than half of the states in the country at that time. There is real emotion as they both discuss what the future will hold. In today’s society there is more acceptance of interracial marriage because there has been a greater awareness being taught and shared. During the late 50’s into the 60’s and on into the 70’s there was still the atmosphere of anger and prejudice still rampant due to the lack of social awareness. People were still reeling from all the changes being brought to the forefront and not being prepared for these changes. If you have been raised to see a person the way your parents looked at that same person, there might be a challenge for you to make the correct or right choice. Seoulman005
ReplyDeleteIn the video, the dad talks about how the consequences his daughter and John's children will have. He ask if they know what will happen to them and the words for it. He is referring to the child rearing part for them. Back in the 1960's blacks and whites would ever have children. Interracial marriage was actually illegal in about 16 states. My professor did say that long before that they would do extramarital sex but they would never go as far as marrying another. This is a break to both families. Where as both families are looking at the outside effects of them marrying each other and Joey and John are ignoring those effects for their own love. He ask John how does he feel about the problem with the children but he takes it as a joke. He goes on to ask how would he feel about his reaction to his daughter and John's marriage. In Joey's family it is very patriarchal. The father runs all the rules and that is exactly the same in John's family. As referred in the book, the families thought they passed down their social placement meaning passing down their beliefs to their children, which didn't happen. Their beliefs were same race marriage like all the other generations before them in their family but both of their kids didn't believe in that way of life. It says in our books that most people will marry inside their own race or people like themselves. Another point hitting on in this video is social class. Would the father even be having this conversation with John if he wasn't as successful as he is? Or vise-versa and Joey wasn't as successful and have the things she had. Would there be a conversation? It even states that most spouses in marriage share similar backgrounds. John or Joey don't and that is another thing they aren't looking at.
ReplyDeleteJohn Prentice and Jody Drayton were acting as deviant while being in an interracial relationship during the late 1960s. They were deviant because interracial relationships or marriage were illegal in 16 states still. During this time period people believe this was socially normal. Now a day there is no issue with interracial marriage or dating. It’s becoming more and more normal. You see it every day. Also them just meeting and nothing knowing each other was deviant. They had only met while on a vacation in Hawaii and known each other for week. After that week that were wanting to get married. Both the Prentice family and Drayton family were a patriarchy family. The fathers finally say was going to decide if John and Jody could get married. If their fathers weren’t going to give them their blessing, then they wouldn’t have been able to get married. Now a day not every family is formed like this. There are more families headed by woman as the main money provider or as the only parent. It’s more of an equal house hold between the mother and father. Patriarchy still happens in preindustrial societies but in America women has developed more rights and freedom. The family status in society is a big issue. The Drayton’s were in upper class of society as Mr. Drayton being in politics and Mrs. Drayton being an owner of an art studio. With John Prentice being a well-known doctor and Mr. Drayton doing a background check on him to make sure who he really was Mr. Drayton gave his blessing for them to get married. If John Prentice had a normal everything jobs like teacher or post office worker, I don’t believe Mr. Drayton would have given his blessing. People that are in high society positions normally don’t marry or date outside of their societies positions. They want to carry on their family’s tradition of being in high society. Cardinals005
ReplyDeleteIn the video, the dad talks about how the consequences his daughter and John's children will have. He ask if they know what will happen to them and the words for it. He is referring to the child rearing part for them. Back in the 1960's blacks and whites would ever have children. Interracial marriage was actually illegal in about 16 states. My professor did say that long before that they would do extramarital sex but they would never go as far as marrying another. This is a break to both families. Where as both families are looking at the outside effects of them marrying each other and Joey and John are ignoring those effects for their own love. He ask John how does he feel about the problem with the children but he takes it as a joke. He goes on to ask how would he feel about his reaction to his daughter and John's marriage. In Joey's family it is very patriarchal. The father runs all the rules and that is exactly the same in John's family. As referred in the book, the families thought they passed down their social placement meaning passing down their beliefs to their children, which didn't happen. Their beliefs were same race marriage like all the other generations before them in their family but both of their kids didn't believe in that way of life. It says in our books that most people will marry inside their own race or people like themselves. Another point hitting on in this video is social class. Would the father even be having this conversation with John if he wasn't as successful as he is? Or vise-versa and Joey wasn't as successful and have the things she had. Would there be a conversation? It even states that most spouses in marriage share similar backgrounds. John or Joey don't and that is another thing they aren't looking at.
ReplyDeleteDolla005
Sister deviance was definitely at dinner in this movie. There were many points of deviance. Two families at a dinner table back then was very deviant. A black older man being with a white woman was also very deviant. The white woman being a black man home for dinner was deviant. The black wife telling the white father that he was wrong for not understanding how in love they were was another form of deviance. The Joey’s mother going against her husband for her daughter also was deviante. The black maid Tilly was being deviant toward Joey because she was the help and she had no business telling Joey what she should be doing. Due to the fact that back in those day many and if not all white family had black maids. Back in the 1960’s it was very easy to show a form of deviance because patriarchy was the form of social organization that which males dominate females.
ReplyDeletePatriarchy back in those days rules the house. At the end of the movie the white father jumped on board with his daughter's decision. The black father was not on board and he said he never will be. Did you notice how the white father told John and Joey that John’s father will be on board one day and he will get him there. That’s where patriarchy comes in as well because what make that Joey’s father feel he has to have the last word. It was his household so therefore he had the final say. Nowadays patriarchy doesn't run the house as much it is more monarchy. Where there are single family homes where the woman are taking charge now in the home. Cupcake005...
I feel that the main subject matter at issue in this clip has to do with how society at the time viewed miscegenation and what effect would it have on the children. Joey was said to be an optimist in that her children could be president of the U.S. I think she is a little too optimistic in thinking that the prejudices would change within a decade or two. Especially since even before the start of the 60s people had already started the fight for equality to end the segregation. Lindon B Johnson attempted this in 64 but people found flaws in the system and segregation was still an issue even into the 70s. At the end of the clip Sidney told Spencer that he was told that Spencer was a liberal and have supported such events in his career. That was not an excuse about the time that was allotted to Spencer to make a decision that would ultimately affect his daughter and his grandchildren. In other words, he is a liberal and will support the wishes of his daughter and Sidney and will not become a hinder to their choices in life. But Spencer’s worries were not the fact that he had to make a choice that went with an interracial relationship on the contrary he was more concerned with treatment that they and their children would have to face in society. You can say that their behavior is deviant and that it would be viewed as deviant in terms of the society whether it be members of either culture. When it came to Spencer he did not see the behavior as deviant as much as he was afraid of what might happen to then while in public. The arguments Spencer had was what society’s opinion was and what the society would do to them. This was a time of lynching’s and battering’s to those members of the African American culture. So not only did Spencer have to fear of what would happen to Sidney but also everyone associated with him such as Joey or the children that they may have one day. BHL005
ReplyDeleteWell to start off I agree with the fact that things were probably moving far too quickly. Yes, it was good for them to be moving past racism but unfortunately many other people at the time were not and when you throw things at people like that it can cause a lot of negative effects and results then you would have if you had given them a little more time to process things. When people begin feeling that they have been pressured into a corner they tend to get into a Fight or flight response which in this case would be accepting it begrudgingly or fighting against it. So in hindsight I am not really surprised that the father acted the way he did. People need time to accept and change things peacefully and will every one accept it? No. sadly we as humans are sinful creatures and no matter what we want there will always be someone out there who will be racist. This fact also brings me around to the case of the father. For the father I do not believe that his dilemma was that he was feeling racist but that he was scared, scared for what would happen to his daughter and her fiancé because of those people who will never change. We don’t talk about it a lot, but there were a lot of people who were mistreated and even sometimes killed for having interracial relationships at the time. This is why I think the father acted the way he did because he was terrified about what might happen to his daughter.DCBade005
ReplyDeleteThis movie involved two very different families coming to grips with the impending interracial family in the 60's. During the 60's racial problems were in the for front. Loving v. Virginia was passed 6 months before where the US Supreme Court said all states had to recognize interracial marriage as legal. This movie was written to put the most positive approach on a very controversial subject. The white father was a liberal all his life as well as the mother but never thought about his very own daughter marrying a black man. He had John checked out right away and wanted to talk to John about probable problems they would face. In the 60's fathers were in charge of the house and made important decisions so as the patriarch of the family he was asked for his blessing on the marriage. The movie really deviated from the norm in presenting the interracial marriage and the families reactions. The main black man John was not the typical black man with his college education and success as a doctor. They chose Sidney Portier purposely because he was an excellent example himself with his educated language and success as an actor. Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn were upper income and John's family was from middle class. By using deviant characters and showing the interracial problem in a positive light the movie was a box office hit and a good message of acceptance was relayed to thousands.
ReplyDeleteKarl Marx would say it was a farce because black people were fighting for an equal education, freedom to marry who they wanted and freedom in the work place - unlike the circumstances in the movie. I feel the movie was a help the because it reached thousands.Grandma005
When watching this short clip of the movie I noticed many things. Like how the father sublimely stresses over the issue on how john and his daughter will be treated in the future. He also worries about how their kids, and his grandchildren will be judged and treated as they enter this world. His beliefs has made him very conscious and aware of the misjudgment and treatment that his daughter and his future grandchildren will have to face as they progress with their relationship. He states he may not be a racist , but his beliefs and how he sees things as fit are interfering with him being happy for his daughter and her marriage. Which brings up the topic deviance. During that set time period interracial relationship were not common and also illegal in 16 states at the time. Marrying or even courting someone from the opposite race was seen as deviant and not apart of the norm. That's how the dad and his generation were brought up when viewing interracial relationships. He didn't think to teach his daughter not to marry outside of her race because it wasn't apart of the norm and did not expect her to even have an attraction to another race , especially not an African American at the time. As the movie progressed both families looked to the dad for the last word. Like when john had a private conversation with his wife's father he makes it clear that he does not accept their relationship or approve, he would not go through with the marriage. When this scene took place it showed a sense of patriarchy. During that time period the dad always had the last word and say in Anything no matter what. But in society today that has changed a lot. It has changed tremendously because a lot of families are made up of single moms who take care of everything and have the last say in anything. Another thing that Has changed in society today is that more dads are becoming stay at home dads. Which was rare back then because dads were meant to be seen as the bread winners of the family. Society has conformed and has changed our social views and values on a lot of things that harshly contrasts with views and values that are set in the movie.food005
ReplyDeleteRace may always be an issue but throughout the recent generations, it has become more common to see a white woman with a black man or a black man with a white woman. In this video, they were talking about when they would have children and the problems that would come along with having children that would be a mixed race. Joanna did not see a problem with having children of another race because she just saw them as being her children and she thought that they would still become the President of the United States regardless of their color. John said a marriage is not a marriage unless there are children involved. He knew that it may cause problems or a controversy or that his children may come across problems as they are growing up, but he knew that he could deal with them and that he would be able to get through the problems that they were going to come across. I do not see anything wrong with an interracial marriage and children that are mixed in color because I think that if the people are happy, then we should let them be happy. The fact that Virginia banned interracial couples to marry or have children in 1961 is a little crazy to me. Since when were states allowed to judge couples based on their race. Race is just a factor of what makes people the person they are and who they are. I am glad that Joanna and John stuck with their relationship and are willing to still have children regardless of the problems that they may come across. Bball005
ReplyDeletePatriarchy was displayed from the father because he was very dominate. He had the final say. Men always felt as if they dominated women back in their earlier times even now it's still the same. Families has always viewed it's financial security and range of opportunities when it came to who should be where. Family usually agree with what the man of the house says. Deviance is a basic part of social organization. By defining deviance society sets it's moral boundaries. Labeling theory also can be applied because it's not so much to what people do but how they responded to their actions of the father. Intragenerational social mobility is what they feel and how much their opinions doesnt matter. The father was looking out for his family and their roles and statues. The social power of the society and marriage played a major role also. I'll consider it deviant. 12mc-005
ReplyDeleteIn the film, “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?” a story of an interracial marriage to be, set in the mid 1960’s - is a sociologist's paradise. Riddled with expressive examples of sexist, racist, and ageist behavior it’s a clear window into some of the hardships and rough realities that plagued circa 1960’s America. In the scene featured above, initially we notice two powerful main characters discussing the potential issues with the recently presented marriage of a black man to a white woman. Now, while the exchange between these two was critical, it comes right out and shows us that the only opinions that, “really,” matter and should be taken to heart, are that of the men involved. Now, while we could potentially consider this behavior deviant - neglecting the opinion of the women in considering potential struggles, back then I believe it’s fair to say it wasn’t necessarily deviant, and might go as far to say it was common. As we move on, we feel the extreme pressure the racial divide placed on both parties involved. Depicted throughout the film we see the struggles of a set of parents coming to terms with their children engaging in something unheard of back when they were finding their partners, and it’s all as a result of the color of their skin. Reflecting on this in common day, we as a society would like to probably claim that this is no longer an issue, and objecting to interracial relationships is the deviant behavior. Though it may seem faux pas in more quickly adapting communities, it’s not out of the norm for societal lag to rear it’s ugly head, and show us that all over people - with a fair amount of individuals in the United States, still to this day in 2017 find it strange, or morally suspect for races to intermingle. Luckily we have seen the majority switch over the last 40 years, and we see that the obtuse, even questionable, behavior is that of those speaking out against relationships shared between different racial partners. All of this showing us that though there are some stragglers displaying an opposite deviant behavior today, society is moving ahead regardless of the racial, sex, and age-driven divisions present in this artistic depiction of an interracial engagement in the 1960’s.
ReplyDelete35G005 - Missed Wednesday, April 19th with instructor's approval in advance, late submission.
The video of John and Mr. Drayton is a conversation that I feel as if it is almost common for every future son-in-law and future father in-law have. It’s all about the future. How are you going to take care of the kids? What if this and that happens. And I feel like the most important question asked is done by Mr. Drayton when he asks john if he understands what his children might have to face in the future. At the time with the race rallies and fight for equality all around it was a very hard time for African American people. Problems that many white people didn’t have to go through to be treated equal. This is something I see Mr. Drayton fears mainly because he knows the world is not as optimistic as his daughter when it comes to seeing everyone equally. And doesn’t want his family to be treated in such ways. However John doesn’t look as worried when he answers Mr. Drayton’s questions. I think this is for three reasons, the first being he knows his children will face troubles but not just for being “mixed” but for just growing up, he understands that there is many hardships one overcomes when becoming an adult. The second being he sees what is going on in Montgomery and other parts of the south. And he knows that the black people and putting up to much of a fight not to lose. I feel that he is very confident in the MLK movement unlike Dr. Drayton. Dr. Drayton only having his doubts due to his age, no one has done anything like the civil rights movement in his time so he’s worried it might fail. Yet the last reason being probably the most important is that Joanna feels the same way as John about both reasons one and two. Creating a special bond that linked them up in the first place.
ReplyDeleteBikemaker005