I’ll state my opinion strait up, no bows attached; I think it is complete bull…, ahem, malarkey, to call this patriarchy of any sort. The speech largely targets both sexes involved, and points fingers at both equally. Both John Prentice Sr. and Mike Ryan’s effective insults are referred to the same way as his conversation with Mary Prentice. Matt Drayton even ends the speech pointing out John Prentice Sr. as a stubborn individual. I half think that some who consider this scene patriarchy will have the same attitude towards anything that isn’t matriarchy; not every conflict in the world can be called gender stratification. Do not forget that the whole scene is built on the basis of racial stratification, perpetuated by a culture suffering from cultural lag. The scene focuses instead on allowing Matt Drayton to settle his own emotional conflict associated with his near-forgotten feelings, allowing him to see that, no matter how segregated, nor how subjected to prejudice his daughter and her children may be, she would never be happy if she could not marry her beloved. This is a man, with the status of a father, wishing the best for his daughter, coming to terms with what he truly needs to do to fulfill the role of that status. It is a powerful scene, depicting the defiance, and deviance, of a “burnt-out” old man, fighting both statements of ageism and verbally discarding society’s norms towards race. The man remembers his love for his wife, and in doing so, has the clarity needed to see the importance of his acceptance of the decision made by his daughter. Matt Drayton expresses power, not as a man, but as a person, who chooses to open declare his defiance of discrimination, providing peace of mind to this couple that they may become a minority as a miscegenetic couple, but he will never contribute to the social conflict that they may face. In short, I truly believe that this scene displays not male authority, but the charisma of one that has regained feelings that had almost been forgotten. -SoarSore789
SoarSoar, I agree with you. I think there was a lot of different elements in this speech, but not of patriarchy. Mr. Drayton heard about the engagement early in the movie and went through a lot of different interactions since hearing it that swayed his opinion in opposite ways. He kept getting built up anger in the quickness of the decision and after going for ice cream and hitting the other car. Talking to Mr. Prentice solidified his decision. His wife and the monsignor both loosened his façade a little bit. Until finally, Mrs. Prentice broke it down. He went through so many interactions that reminded him of things and made him forget others. This speech was a product of that. Catzfuhdays789
For me, this is one of the most important part in the movie. The father gave his speech to show support and agreement to the marriage of his dear daughter. While the father was speaking, everyone listens. All the women cry and the men listen seriously. This look right and normal to me and sure for other when watching this movie, because we were living in the patriarchy world. I feel the scene is normal because this look real in my life. I have been taught while growing up about the different between gender: girl and boy, women and men. And gender role: boy is mischievous, play sport well, their clothes always dirty, and they are stronger. While girl is soft, walk slow, always crying, sit still, clean, and do housework. Man has to have a job, a head of household, and bread money the family, while woman has to have the family and take care of the children and house. When I'm still a little kid, I like to play "boy toys" like sword, soccer ball, superman, car and like to play with the boys. These in adult eyes were tag as unusual and different enough so that my family always mention these in my childhood age conversation. I also feel proud because of my unique and different than "normal girl" without realize why other think these behaviors so "unique". After taking sociology, I known that because I was breaking the gender norms in the society. I was breaking what people deep believed in and expected to be true. Like what Karl Marx believed in gender-conflict theory, there is the inequality between gender. The gender stratification exits not only in the past but in today society as well. We said more women are victims of sexual harassment than men but not said more men involved in sexual harassment crime than women. We said the woman got rape but we didn't say the man rape the woman. Even how we said and organized the sentence can show gender bias and sexism. For me, gender stratification is just the way to let one of the sex gain power and control over other. We have pornography to dehumanize women, we have demeanor and violence abuse to show men 's power. Like what radical feminism believed, we can't avoid gender stratification, unless there is no more gender. If the mother is the one who gave speech and the men were crying as the same time as other women, this scene will become real humor and have no weight. This is the power of patriarchy.Zero789
I agree that this is the most important part of the movie. I really wasn’t sure how the movie was going to end. Mr. Brayton gave the speech and came from a father’s heart and I didn’t feel that it screamed Patriarchy. I think the men were actively listening, because both Mr. Prentice and John felt that knew exactly what he was going to share. I think the women were crying maybe because they both thought Mr. Brayton was going to say that he wasn’t going to support this marriage. However I think everyone involved was relieved that with Mr. Brayton’s response and his support. In my family when visiting my grandparents on my father’s side it was expected that the women and girls “hens” hung out in the kitchen and the men and boys “roosters” hung out in the living room. My grandma was very uncomfortable if some of girls wanted to get to know grandpa more and visit with him. I think this would be an example of cultural lag. You are totally correct in your example of reversing the roles, the women gave the speech and the men cried. Everyone would have probably thought it was hilarious and it wouldn’t have been taken as seriously.
I also grew up being taught that girls show more emotion than boys do. Girls cry and need a strong man to go to and to protect them and such however there is two things to address with that. First off I was always that one of many girls who would be off playing sports or videogames with the guys rather than going out for coffee or doing hair with the other girls. I was often called a ‘tomboy’ and embraced it I loved being called that I took it as a compliment and moved on with my day. So yes to some people it may have been seen as not a global norm but to the community and society that I was raised in it was seen as a social norm for girls to play rough. Secondly, looking back on movies and shows from when I was growing up, they painted a picture and gave these little girls the ideas that their man needed to be tough and strong. The man had to slay the dragon and be the hero and save the day. The man had to protect the damsel in distress and get the girl in the end. So, I feel that in order to change these gender roles we would have to go back and change many great movies not get rid of gender. Now we have movies coming out where the female is the protagonist and saves the day which, in my opinion, is a step in the right direction. Cassiopia789
By definition patriachy was definitely present in this scene. The journalist was the eldest male and head of his household, when he spoke everyone listened. His tone of voice was very assertive and authoritarian. When he called the meeting prior to giving his approval on his daughters marriage to a black man, doing so depicts a sense of control not over the individuals but over the current situation. Per societal roles men are said to lead the household, this was quite obvious throughout the film as occupations of all the men were mentioned but not that of the women. Because more then likely their jobs were within the home. mummyoftwo789
I will have to disagree. I see support given during the clip. However, I did not feel he was being control or trying to show patriarchy. I felt he definitely patriarchy in the beginning. He was trying to control how everyone thought Christina and Mike especially. He acted appalled that Mike didn't see anything wrong with the issue. Then he argued with Christina when she tried to say she was OK with the marriage. With him being the man he didn't like that he wanted her to say yes Matt you are right they can’t get married. She even tries to explain to her husband that they cannot be mad because they thought their child not to judge by race, sex or gender. As for this clip he did have everyone's focus which I believe was out of respect but he was more stating you have my blessing and Mr. Prentice he will be OK also. Gander 789
While I can understand what you are saying, I don’t feel like there was total patriarchy going on here. Yes everyone was listening to what Drayton was saying, but that’s because they had put the expectation on him that he would have to render a decision of approval or denial. They were showing him the respect of “having the floor” or it was his turn to speak. Had this been a patriarchal speech, since he was the eldest and most powerful man in the room, he would have told John’s father that not only will he give approval to the marriage, but John’s father would be giving approval to the marriage as well. His tone was stiff in beginning I will agree, but he wanted to make sure that his point about loving his wife was conveyed properly. His tone then changes to a more loving and understanding tone when addressing John and Joanna which solidified my opinion that it was more of the parental guidance, not patriarchy. pmed789
I do agree that the father of the bride is the one assuming the patriarchal family roll pointing at the power that society has in terms of prejudice about racial marriage about who to socialize with and how as process of socialization based on social forces and this being perceived as second deviance by society established norms.
While he was talking to everyone involved in this situation he made a point about some people being wrong about how he felt and that hadn’t seen it they way it was said to them but that doesn't mean that he didn't have feelings about it. More importantly was that he mentioned how Dr. Prentice told them that he wouldn't marry his daughter if there is opposition from them he wouldn't marry his daughter. Then he said that their opinion doesn't matter if two wonderful people that fell in love want to get marry. Koi789
In this situation the dad is giving both his support and is presenting a very patriarchal role. The way he is talking to all the people in the room brings out his generation. He doesn’t ask for anyone to sit down. He tells everyone to sit down, because he is the head of the house. The Dr.’s father was putting off a very patriarchal tone as well. He insisted that him and the other father go into a separate room to talk about the issue because they are in charge. In this time, society was beginning to not only conform to racial equality, but it was starting to conform to gender equality. Women were working in factories in World War II and they continued in the work place even to modern day. Even the older generation women still followed the belief that the man of the house has the power. Just as well, the father is being very accepting of the situation with race in the house. He is treating his company as regular company in his household. Racial inequality is not residual for him. This shows that the father is conforming to the new cultural way. The father is also giving his support to the Doctor and daughter. He essentially is telling them that he is accepting what they want and he agrees that they deserve it. He tells them that they won’t have any issues from him. But they will have issues from the rest of the world. Society is going to see them differently and not interpret the situation the same as the doctor and the daughter do. In a sociological perspective this situation poses an anomaly. The father is very dominant because of the upbringing of his generation, so he is more demanding to his family and guests. We also see that he has taken part in establishing racial equality, so he has conformed to a newer societal way and does not have cultural lag. ViciousAfro789
Replies I agree. I think at the end, he is giving his own perspective and opinion on what he believes. But he is also being accepting of their relationship. No matter who the person is, they are still loved. He taught his daughter as she grew up to be accepting of others as they do the same in return. But to get to where he was at the end, he had to get other opinions. He spoke with all of the parents including outsiders of the family to get a better perspective of the situation. That is almost always the best option to help with issues. Schmidt789
I also believe that the dad is giving both his support and presenting a patriarchal role. Throughout the whole movie the dad makes it seem like his decision is going to be the final decision but towards the end he shows that he does love his daughter and he just wants her to be happy. He also did this by making the men go in to a different room to talk because to them they are the ones in charge, it shows how in that time men were in charge and got to make all of the executive decisions. It was a good idea that he spoke to all of the people and got everyone’s perspective. I liked how he ended it by saying no matter what race a person is or what religion they practice love is love. EPIC789
This conversation was important for both sides of the family. I agree that although men are normally known as the head leader of a house hold and they make the final say so, I believe both men had to look at this situation a little different since their children were involved. Yes, society will judge them different. But, if everyone is supportive they could come together as two different cultural families and change society's mind on their relationships. It may not be accepting at first but eventually people wont look at the difference and accept it for what it is. unknownzeeha789
I agree that the father did have some patriarchal tendencies in this scene and throughout the movie he was very demanding and when he was telling them that he didn't agree with what they were doing he felt as if it wasn't going to happen just because he said that. He did kind of change towards the end when he announced that he accepted his daughters relationship. Crown789
I believe it’s a little of both patriarchy, as well as showing support. Dr. Prentice wanted both Mr. and Mrs. Drayton’s approval before he would marry their daughter. But Mr. Drayton’s approval was more substantial and meaningful. Dr. Prentices implicit bias about how Mr. Drayton would feel knowing that his daughter is willing to conform to deviant behavior by marrying outside her race. Patriarchy comes into play when Mr. Drayton used his master status of being a man. In traditional societies as well as some societies today, the man is considered the head of the house. The conversation was controlled by him, he talked, and everyone listened, and dinner was not served until he finished his speech. However, there was no evidence of gender inequality. He stated, “the three of them will work on John’s father”. That statement clearly shows that he feels both woman is equal, and their opinion is just as important. Not particularly in this clip but I believe matriarchy had an influence on Mr. Drayton’s decision. After the shock wore off, Mrs. Drayton immediately saw the love her daughter and Dr. Prentice felt for each other. She expressed that while having a conversation with Mr. Drayton before dinner. Maybe, he did not want his wife to label him as a racist. During his speech Mr. Drayton addressed ageism and discussed the racial prejudice and discrimination John and Joey will endure. He may be old and worn out, but he still knows how it feels to be in love. Stepping into his gender role of father, he wants the best for his daughter and wants her to be happy. He socialized her to believe that she is not superior to blacks and everyone is equal. Although he never considered how they felt about one another, Mr. Drayton realized that Dr. Prentice and Joey live in a different constructed reality but also know the challenges they face ahead. Granny 789
I personally believe that calling this scene patriarchal is a bit of a stretch, however I also believe that your points are spot on. He may have utilized his status as a man, and as the master of the household, to control the situation easily, but I have a sneaking suspicion that even if he was a she, he’d (she’d?) still find a way to take the stage, and make their opinion known, just as every female character had the guts to challenge him. That can be attributed to his strong, straightforward personality that comes with his line of work, and the type of life he lived because of it. In the end, he made a decision that respected everyone’s opinion, seeking happiness for his daughter. He pushed forward, remembering the love he felt for his wife; Matt Drayton’s acceptance of his daughter’s happiness began with accepting his own happiness, almost forgotten. -SoarSore789
It true that the father did show his support to his daughter’s marriage. But I still see some of the patriarchy behavior in this scene. Like what you said above, the dinner will only star after the father speech and his support is weight more than other support ( his friend and the two wifes). While mention the equality and important of the women, he is also showing of his power. The speech which he gave within 5 minutes is not enough to cover his attitude and behavior toward his wife in half of the movie. He was angry because his age but also angry because no body taking his side (he sense of the overcome of power). He may gave the speech with true heart to support his daughter but que can denied that his decision are just change after his wife’s argument that will stay with his daughter and fight him, and the talk with Dr. Prestines’ mother (he is disagreed with what she said about how aging make fogrot the love). He stared the speech by denied the statement of Dr. Prestines’ mother and scold at Joley to shut up. I not said what he said is wrong, I like his support. But in the personally, I do believed that the more time pass by, the thing called ‘love’ fading, especially is men.( Isn’t this sound like matriarchy? Or stereotypes?). The point here is how people see these problem. If there is no any of patriarchy, how can we measure the matriarchy? Overall, his speech is emotion and very meaningful to the couple and on this racism matter. (Gender? ) Zero789
This is one of the best endings to a movie I think I have seen in a very long time. It shows us that even though you may have your own beliefs, you can put them aside whether they are strong or not, in order to make the ones you love and care about happy and let them know they are loved. At the beginning of this film, it could have been an example of patriarchy. But at the end, when Mr. Drayton puts his feelings aside to make them both happy, it proves to the audience that it is nothing like patriarchy. Patriarchy is a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line. In today’s society, this is the way it is like in households. The eldest male is the man of the house and during the speech Matt gave before dinner, he made sure nobody was talking and everyone was listening. At the beginning of this movie, the parents find out that they are planning on getting married and so both of the fathers have their own bias opinions on their relationship based on their ageism, social stratification, and their own experiences with racism. John admits to Joanna’s Mother and Father that if they do not approve of their marriage, they will not follow through with it. He believes that relationships with family are extremely important and if by her marrying him ruins it, then he will cancel their plan. At the end, almost every one of the parents end up being on good terms with their decision and are happy for them. There happens to be no gender inequality based on his statement of all of the parents working on Dr. Prentice’s father to get him to understand. Matt goes on to tell them that if the two of them have half of what he and his wife have, they will make it through anything, including complications in society and their belief system. No matter what race, age, ethnicity, or religion you are. This film helps prove that love is love. And if you care about a person, you cannot control who they are. Schmidt789
This was a fantastic ending to the movie. It was powerful and proved we can overcome our own belief systems. I don't think he puts his feelings aside as much as he actually comes to his senses. The social stratification was completely shattered once Matt made the speech at the end of the movie (which was admittedly expected) I felt great at the end though, his speech was great and Dr. Prentice's father had to put his egoic ways aside and really embrace the moment. QuinkThick789
Personally, I see this scene as a father performing his role in giving his support rather than a patriarchy. A patriarchy is defined as a form of social organization in which males dominate the females. Since this scene is simply the father explaining and giving permission for his daughter to marry a man. To me that is not males dominating females, when I think of that I think of arranged marriages with where women are forced into new statuses because the father tells the girl they are to be married to this man. The ascribed status to me is where a patriarchy would come into effect for this example. Yes, technically our society is a patriarchy since it is dominated by men but in Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner; Dr. Prentice, a male, states he would not marry Joanna unless both Mr. and Mrs. Drayton approved of the marriage. If it was truly a patriarchy then why would Dr. Prentice want to make sure Mrs. Drayton “had no reserves about the marriage” as well as Mr. Drayton. It also shows that there is little to no gender stratification in this situation for Mr. and Mrs. Drayton. Now when it comes to gender roles they are very apparent in this scene and throughout the movie. It shows the mothers crying and showing emotion while the men stay strong and keeping it together not shedding any tears. It also addressed ageism when Mr. Drayton denied Mrs. Prentice’s claim that “he cannot remember what it was like to love a woman as her son loves his daughter”. Going back to Mr. Drayton giving support to his daughter and the marriage he mentions the racism, discrimination and other prejudice results that may come about from the interracial marriage the effect it may have on not only Dr. Prentice and Joanna but on their children as well because of miscegenation. Until the day that pluralism happens which is when people of all races and ethnicity are distinct but have equal social standings. Cassiopia789
I think throughout the entire movie there is a good amount of Patriarchal tones and elements. However in the clip provided, it would appear that this is simply a case of a father giving advice and wisdom to the kids. Patriarchy is defined as “a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property”. In our book it speaks of the power established in a patriarchal relationship. Men have the ability to achieve desired ends despite the resistance from others. He was not trying to achieve HIS goal in the clip and wanted to put aside the societal norms of the times. He realized that he was wrong in his previous thinking and that the love between the couple means everything and that they will be fine despite the rampant racism that is plaguing the nation during that time period. He is simply giving his daughter permission to marry a black man and not asserting dominance over her. If anything, he is submitting to their will of wanting to get married. He has put his feelings of superiority aside and just wants to see his daughter happy. It can be seen that the father of the Dr. is still not accepting of this and if it were his way, the marriage would not happen. Had the movie gone this direction, this would have definitely been Patriarchy. Still today we can still see this racial tension when a mixed couple is together. I think that it has gotten better by a long shot, and it all depends on where we live in the United States and the immediate cultures surrounding the couple.. Places that are more progressive will generally be more accepting of this type of relationship whereas places that are more conservative will tend to meet this kind of relationship with resistance or outright discrimination. There are still parts of this country, even 50+ years after this movie was made, that still do not embrace the idea of multiculturalism. This movie is set just after the black suffrage which gave black people the right to vote and would still be hard to accept that a white woman and a black man would want to be married. pmed789
I both agree and disagree. For me, much of the patriarchal overtones of this movie came from the discussion of Joanna as though she were and object to be given or taken away. This came from both Matt and John, who over and over discuss whether or not there will be a marriage, discussing Matt's consent as though John is proposing marriage to Matt instead of Joanna herself. Joanna's feelings are rarely discussed, unless they are brought up by her mother, Christina, a woman. Christina is then dismissed by Matt for being too emotional. It is like she is a child, unable and distrusted to make her own choices, both by her father and her chosen mate, even though she is the singular character in the film who shows no sign of wavering. Instead it is left up to the men whether she is allowed to marry, what is 'best' for her, whether or not she'll be happier doing this or that. Secrets are kept from her, her opinion is never asked, and she is talked over and told blantantly to shut up. But is this because Matt doesn't love his daughter, or because John doesn't love Joanna? No, it's the exact opposite. I firmly believe that both men deeply, deeply love Joanna, and they want nothing more than for her to be happy and well, and they are a product of their generation and were raised to take control of a situation in this way. It is a symptom of BOTH fatherly love and patriarchy in my opinion, and I think you're entirely correct in saying that he was not trying to establish his goal, because of his intense love for his daughter, but he was still holding the majority of the power, and the role of leadership, which is one of the main issues, in my opinion.
My opinion is the same as Buwowski222. In your post, pmed789, you even say the very thing that supports my argument: that Patriarchy is the dominance of men over women in positions of leadership, moral authority, control of property, and social privilege. The men in this situation, Matt Drayton and John Prentice, showed a moral authority, and a control of property over the women. The entire monologue was based on John Prentice’s choice to rely on the parent’s decision to cancel the marriage, without telling his fiancée about it. Both men seem to ignore the women yet speak for their interests at the same time, dismissing their arguments because it was based on emotion. In the end he spoke to the group to not only tell the engaged couple to not choose to get married or not based on their decisions, but also because his opinion had the greatest weight. It was socialized at the time, that as the man of the house, he had to take authority towards all others because that was his duty as the man. If he didn’t approve, the marriage would be canceled without Joey’s choice, or with regards towards her opinion as an adult woman because of the gender stratification involved with the gender roles assigned to Joey’s sex. Papyrus789
When Mr. Drayton makes his speech towards the end of the movie, I believe he is being a patriarch about things, but not nearly as much as he is just being a supportive father. I feel like the patriarchy of it comes from seemingly everyone involved, especially John Prentice Jr., putting so much importance on what Mr. Drayton has to say about things. He even says in his speech that not even he himself thinks his decision is that important, but that the way they make each other feel is everything. It seems to me that Mr. Drayton does not have any true issues with his daughter marrying a man of color, but more so with the issues they are going to face from the public as an interracial couple. He even says so himself that he did not even begin to think about how his daughter and John might actually feel about each other. Once John's mother mentions that factor of the situation, you can tell on Mr. Drayton's face that he is instantly rethinking the entire situation. Throughout this entire movie, and in this short clip especially, there is another big message that I saw. Love is a very strong thing, and it has been said that it has the power to overcome just about anything. In this movie, love had the power to overcome racial boundaries, and it had the power to sway the decisions of Joanna's parents and John's mother, but not so much his father. However, given a little bit more time Mr. Prentice may start to come around, seeing as they were all blindsided by the situation and left with only one evening to make a decision. In the beginning of the movie, Tillie came off as seeming even more upset about the couple than anyone else involved. This was not the response I was expecting at all. Seeing as Tillie is a woman of color, I assumed that she would be the most accepting about things. It seems that even she had come to terms with things in the end.White789
I agree that throughout the movie Mr. Drayton felt the need to have control over every situation and needed to have the authority. No matter how unsure he was about his daughter’s marriage, he just wanted her to be happy and did not want her to get hurt because he knew how cruel the world can be. Dr. Prentice was putting so much weight behind Mr. Drayton’s word due to the fact that he is planning on marrying his daughter and wanted to receive his blessing. Dr. Prentice knew how close Joanna is to her parents and he never wanted to come between her and her family. He knew how important that is because he had felt the loss of his own family. I concur that love is a powerful emotion and does amazing things to the world and the people in it. MelRich895
I believe this was patriarchy at the beginning of Mr. Drayton’s speech. He presented his self as the authoritarian figure letting everyone in the room know he’s in charge with his non-verbal communication, tone of voice, and the way he walked around the room. He controlled the conversation as he addressed each person in the room. The fact that Dr. Prentice was black was a small factor. I agree his main issue was miscegenation. Although he expresses no prejudice or discrimination towards interracial marriage, he wanted to make sure both Dr. Prentice and Joanna understood the “unimaginable” problems they will come up against, which they already experienced at the beginning of the movie with Tillie. You said that you did not expect that response, since Tillie was a woman of color. I believe some African Americans have more prejudices that European Americans when it comes to interracial marriage, especially if the man is black and the woman is white. Then towards the end of his speech, he becomes more supportive. His body language is more relaxed and welcoming. He even has a glow in his eyes when he really considered and finally seen how they felt about one another. He came to terms that because of their love for one another, Dr. Prentice and Joanna will have the strength and courage to take on whatever may come their way. Granny 789
In the beginning of the movie I would not have thought Mr. Drayton would have responded the way he did in this clip. In the beginning he acted like a patriarchy and showed sexism by trying to control everything. By telling his wife he can’t agree with them getting married it’s not the norm. Even calling about John to see if he could find shocking news about him other than him being a different race and wanting to marry his daughter. Matt and Mr. Prentice sat there and talked telling each other we have to stop this madness before they both do something they will regret. Instead he said John went wrong by worrying to much what him and Christina thought about the marriage. Mr. Drayton realizes how much John cares about Joanna because he remembers how much he loved Christina and still loves her. Mr. Drayton also states that they both have to realize the problems they both will face. The racist comments, or the horrific looks. People are going to be shocked, offended, and appalled of them just because it not the cultural norm. Race should say with the same race, man should not sleep with same sex, and you are born the gender you were meant to be. This way of thinking is bias and the more generation grow, the more our thinking expands. In today society the majority of people don’t believe in this. Yes, racism is still an issue but nothing like it was 50 years ago. I don’t think about it when I see different races walking together or holding hands. Mr. Drayton tell his daughter and John you too will up against a lot but if you stay together and say screw those people you will do just fine. He makes a joke saying in time they will get Mr. Prentice to agree also but it’s nobody’s choice but theirs so as long as there happy he won’t stop them. Gander789
I agree I was not expecting him to respond the way he did either. As the movie went on he seemed to really struggle with the decision of accepting their love or not. He did seem to hold more of the control of the situation. After all John did say if he didn’t have the acceptance of both parents then the wedding was off. Mr. Dayton did seem genuinely surprised by what he found out about John. Almost as if he was surprised a colored man could accomplish what John had accomplished so far and by the news of what he wants to do in the future. At that point in the past if I was raised the way Joey was raised I am sure I would have made the same decision. She was so sure that John would be accepted by her parents because of the way they raised her. Cultural norm or not she knew deep down that her parents would support her decision to marry a colored man. As far as patriarchy goes i do believe that in this instance it falls hand in hand with Mr. Dayton giving his support. He is warning the couple of the troubles they will face but the decision was solely resting on his blessing. -Slimjim789
In this video clip I believe the dad is giving advice but also somewhat playing a patriarchal role. You can tell that the dad is still against it but he is willing to put his beliefs aside and let his daughter be happy which is the part of the dad giving advice, he is showing that he is still in charge but he is also okay with it now. According to a definition on Webster dictionary patriarchy is when the father or eldest male is head of the family. The dad shows this by making everyone sit down and stop talking. The Dr gave him the title of it by saying he will not marry his daughter without his approval, he was giving the dad the power to make the decision. The father is also being a little bit accepting of the different race, and treating them as he would treat anyone else. He does also let them know that even though he approves that there are going to be many people who do not accept it and they may be discriminated against. An example of this would-be Hillary, she was so confused and stereotypical when she saw her with a colored man. Throughout the whole movie you could see the typical gender roles. The dads acted like they were in charge the whole time and they seemed like they did not even care what the women thought. When the daughter’s mom confronted the dad he became very upset because back then it was frowned upon for the wife to ever confront the father. The very last thing the dad says is that if they love each other like him and his wife do they will have a successful marriage, that no matter what age or race or religion you are love is love. EPIC789
I agree that the way he sat everyone down was a sign of patriarchy, along with him speaking his mind to each person how he felt. I feel that the patriarchy, or head of house, effect was brought upon Mr. Drayton when everyone was making a seemingly big deal about what he had to say about things. John said that he would not marry Joey unless they had her father's approval, and if they could not get it that he would call everything off. In my opinion, that is placing way too much importance on one man's word, seeing as there are four parents involved, all with their own opinions. I also like that you mentioned Hillary, I did not like her attitude towards things at all, and I was very shocked yet impressed to see how Mrs. Drayton handled things with her. I can understand everyone's concern for the couple and having to face situations such as that one because people can be very cruel over trivial things such as this.White789
I agree that the role of patriarchy was in a way given to Mr. Drayton by Dr. Prentice telling him that it ultimately does down to his vote. However the role of the male being the head of the family and superior to everyone else is a very old tradition. In earlier times of America it was the father or husband who provided for the family and made all the decisions for the family as well. In the movie clip Mr. Drayton is the only one standing which sows his role of being in charge of the situation. However, in my opinion it is not all patriarchal because the ultimate decision of his daughter’s marriage lays within his hands. So I believe it is a mix of patriarchy and free will that everyone is sitting and listening because he was adopted at the decision maker of the group. Navajo789
3. Hearing Joey’s dad finally come around and accept the fact that Joey and John is fully committed to pursuing a married relationship with each other. Visualizing this scenario in reality and putting myself in John’s shoes would definitely plan out exactly the same because my dad is a very straight blunt person and wouldn’t hold back for anyone. So from watching this video I definitely admire the courage from both parents as a whole and more so the fathers. Because they were the ones who John and Joey really needed to convince that they both can handle the upcoming struggles that they may endure in the future. It was really funny hearing Mr. Dayton tell Joey to shut up because she wouldn’t stop talking and because she always takes things to the extreme. Everyone thought that Joey was blind by the pure emotion of love and didn’t see the real problem with them being together and Mr. Dayton wanted for Joey to completely understand where he was coming from. My little sister is the same way that you have to sit her down and slowly go over what you want to know in order for her to understand. If you look carefully in the video you would recognize that everyone in the room was amazed to what the final outcome of Mr. Dayton’s opinion because ever since he met John and ended up finding out why he was there he was against the idea of them being together and getting married. If that was my dad there would be no chance in hell that he will accept the idea back, then because my dad is all about being independent and strict with things. So if that was me and my dad changed his mind like that would definitely mean the world to me. The funniest character from this movie was Monsieur Ryan. Monsieur Ryan liked John because of all his credentials that he has and also because John and Joey are trying to form something new that has never been done in that day in age. Overall watching Mr. Dayton have a change of heart shows that humans are not perfect and that it’s always good to try new things.-NIKE789
In this video the father of the bride shows a patriarchal family support when he start pointing out the events of that particular night that brought them to roller-coaster emotional experience due to the interracial love that his daughter and his soon to be son in-law put them trough by falling in love so quickly and arranging marriage without further notice.
It is almost that the black African American where victims of a population exclusion about who to fall in love with. Mr. Prentice said that I am some kind of a nut and his wofe said that like her husband I am burned old shell of a man that doesn't remember what it is to love a woman the same way that her son loves my doughter. Let me tell you that you are wrong as can ever be I admit that I hadn’t consider it but I know that her son loves my daughter the same way I felt when I felt in love with Christina. Well John (Dr. prentice) made a mistake was attaching much importance about what Christina and I think since the most important thing is about how they feel and how they feel. He did showed a range of total spread of values in a set of figures sociologically speaking of course.
Than he warn them about the racial opposition about everyone since they against anyone for breaking a sociological norm. Koi789
This video is a prime example of Patriarchy at its finest. Not because of the words Mr. Drayton says or how he says them, but because he has to say them at all. His precious approval is the entire reason that the movie even has rising action. Mrs. Drayton has no problems with the marriage, Mrs. Prentice has no problems with it, and Mr. Prentice has massive problems with it though his objections are shot down by his son, Dr. Prentice. It is solely the approval of the father-of-the-bride-to-be that they pursue in the plot, but why? Patriarchy is so deeply ingrained in our society that we expect, nay, WANT the powerful father figure to take charge and save the day. Would the movie be as interesting with a mother-figure in his place? It might not be received in that way. She would be seen as a witch and a harpy, hating the happiness of the young couple and probably wanting the young man for herself instead. The movie wouldn’t have good ratings, wouldn't do well in the box office, and would be counted as, at best, a feminist propaganda film. The media has traditionally placed men in roles of power and authority while the women are automatically subservient to them. If a woman or girl takes on these traits, she is portrayed as deviant for wanting the same power and choices as a man. The sheer fact that we have this as an open-ended question is living proof that the patriarchy is well and alive. Going back to the movie, Joey is content to turn over this life-changing decision to her parents for their approval. It isn’t mentioned in the movie, but after the happy couple are married, whose last name are they expected to take? His. The patriarchy has us so trained to always take the male familial name when married that anything else is seen as strange and out of the ordinary. Not only that, but what kind of career is joey expected to have? She isn’t expected to have one, because she is the wife of a doctor. Her sole purpose will be to raise a family and take care of both them and her husband. Not until both men and women have equal representation in all parts of life, from birth to school to career to death will we have true equality. Minty789
While initially he verbalized his lack of agreeance toward the union of his daughter and her African American fiancé, he later accepted the invitation during a family meeting. Mr. Drayton had a way with words so I am certain being a newspaper publisher and not a baseball player was his calling. Men were said to be leaders of the household and bring home the bread and butter so indeed he was the patriarch/authoritarian within his household but in this clip, not so much. His words flowed nicely, although upfront there was a nice touch of encouragement throughout his speech. The love he has for his wife and daughter resonated throughout the movie, and he made it very clear how he felt once it was brought into question. Eyes began to water towards the end of the scene as he brought attention to the soon to be bride and groom. He wanted them to know exactly what they would be up against...unimaginable problems, one hundred million people will be shocked, offended, and appalled by the decision of a white and black couple marrying he proclaimed. He felt as though the couple could handle all of life’s woes, only if they rode it out together, ignored people, or even felt some sort of guilt for them. In the end not placing emphasis too much on how others feel or what they feel but how the couple feel for one another, was the point Mr. Drayton drove home with! People can’t help who they fall in love with nor the color of their skin. In retrospect, all it takes is a select few to challenge society, you even have to go against the grain sometimes. Ultimately, we must stand up for who and what we believe in! mummyoftwo789
In a way I consider this as just him giving his support, but there are patriarchal elements to be seen from this clip. You see this not only from the behaviors of the men, but of also from the women. On one side he was giving support, saying how the parent’s opinion shouldn’t matter because of their feelings for each other despite the chance of racism occurring from their miscegenation. Yet in the end the people with all the power in this situation were the men, Matt Drayton and John Prentice. The entire monologue was based on John Prentice’s choice to rely on the parent’s decision to cancel the marriage, without telling his fiancée about it. Both men seem to ignore the women yet speak for their interests at the same time. The mother of John Prentice, said that men lose their passion as they grow older and that’s why they can’t relate to John and Joanna’s situation. This statement, while prejudiced, had the effect of getting Drayton to truly consider his daughter’s happiness. Women are socialized to be passive, emotional, and focused on the feminine areas while men are stereotyped as rational, assertive and masculine, which was considered better than being feminine, which is sexist. Women’s gender roles at the time supported gender stratification. They were daughters, wives, and mothers, before they were considered women. That’s why the women supported the couple better at first than the men, because they were socialized to be more sensitive and compassionate towards other people’s feelings. But though socialized that way, humans are a socially driven species that depend on culture. While a man was delivering a speech as the head of the household, it was more of a “I had a change of heart – this entire evening was me struggling with the idea that my daughter was marrying a black man, of course I’m ending it on my terms!” than something patriarchal. However, if Drayton decided to not support them, John would’ve canceled the wedding as Joey’ heart is broken from both of their actions. They both dismiss the women’s opinions because they displayed a strong emotional reaction. I believe, in the end, it was just Drayton telling them to do what they want to do, not something entirely patriarchal. Papyrus789
Beau Richards is not correct when she says that when men grow old and when sexual things no longer matter to them they forget all, they forget what true passion is. What happen when men grow old is the loss of sex driving, because sexual functioning changes in mid-life, and it affects by biology, it is a physical issue. Aging is a gradual, ongoing change in the body When men grow old the sex driving decrease, but in every man may be variable, because there are different factors or reason that lead to the decline of sex driving. One of the first factors is the decline of the testosterone, however in some cases could be illness, medications, and the quality of their relationship. I think that when men grow old they do not forget the passion. I had an uncle that became a dad one more time at sixty-two and he was so happy. Some famous older adults shows that older people can be sexy as Madonna, 59 years old who is still active in the music industry. Finally, I can say that Mrs. Richard is wrong because an old man who once loved his wife with intensity cannot forget the passion he put into that relationship when he was young, “old, yes, burn-out? Certainly but I can tell you the memory is still there clear, intact, indestructible and it’ll be there…” Spencer Tracy. The_soccer_league789
Mr. Drayton has a very strong personality that was portrayed to us differently throughout this movie. It seems that at this time being of the male sex gave you the permission to be the leader of the household. It isn’t easy for me to determine whether or not he is just showing his idea of patriarchy, or if there is a slight form of sexism going on, or if he is just a concerned father. I do believe that he showed signs of all three. I do not believe that he really meant to show signs of patriarchy but they may have come off that way when he basically told everyone to come to the room and sit and listen because he had something to say. I believe in this time the father was the head of the family and everyone listened when he spoke. This is a form of sexism in my eyes. I do, however, believe that even though he was concerned about this marriage, he truly cared about the well-being of these two when entering into the relationship like this at that time when it was illegal in most states still. He did say his peace when explaining that this would not be easy. He believed that for two people who truly understand the limitations and struggles and prejudice that they will be faced with as well as their children in the future, it would be silly to not get married. Especially if they still are in love and willing to take on this challenge after knowing all of the bias and judgments that will be placed on them. MommaJ789
I’ll state my opinion strait up, no bows attached; I think it is complete bull…, ahem, malarkey, to call this patriarchy of any sort. The speech largely targets both sexes involved, and points fingers at both equally. Both John Prentice Sr. and Mike Ryan’s effective insults are referred to the same way as his conversation with Mary Prentice. Matt Drayton even ends the speech pointing out John Prentice Sr. as a stubborn individual. I half think that some who consider this scene patriarchy will have the same attitude towards anything that isn’t matriarchy; not every conflict in the world can be called gender stratification. Do not forget that the whole scene is built on the basis of racial stratification, perpetuated by a culture suffering from cultural lag. The scene focuses instead on allowing Matt Drayton to settle his own emotional conflict associated with his near-forgotten feelings, allowing him to see that, no matter how segregated, nor how subjected to prejudice his daughter and her children may be, she would never be happy if she could not marry her beloved. This is a man, with the status of a father, wishing the best for his daughter, coming to terms with what he truly needs to do to fulfill the role of that status. It is a powerful scene, depicting the defiance, and deviance, of a “burnt-out” old man, fighting both statements of ageism and verbally discarding society’s norms towards race. The man remembers his love for his wife, and in doing so, has the clarity needed to see the importance of his acceptance of the decision made by his daughter. Matt Drayton expresses power, not as a man, but as a person, who chooses to open declare his defiance of discrimination, providing peace of mind to this couple that they may become a minority as a miscegenetic couple, but he will never contribute to the social conflict that they may face. In short, I truly believe that this scene displays not male authority, but the charisma of one that has regained feelings that had almost been forgotten.
ReplyDelete-SoarSore789
SoarSoar, I agree with you. I think there was a lot of different elements in this speech, but not of patriarchy. Mr. Drayton heard about the engagement early in the movie and went through a lot of different interactions since hearing it that swayed his opinion in opposite ways. He kept getting built up anger in the quickness of the decision and after going for ice cream and hitting the other car. Talking to Mr. Prentice solidified his decision. His wife and the monsignor both loosened his façade a little bit. Until finally, Mrs. Prentice broke it down. He went through so many interactions that reminded him of things and made him forget others. This speech was a product of that. Catzfuhdays789
DeleteFor me, this is one of the most important part in the movie. The father gave his speech to show support and agreement to the marriage of his dear daughter. While the father was speaking, everyone listens. All the women cry and the men listen seriously. This look right and normal to me and sure for other when watching this movie, because we were living in the patriarchy world. I feel the scene is normal because this look real in my life. I have been taught while growing up about the different between gender: girl and boy, women and men. And gender role: boy is mischievous, play sport well, their clothes always dirty, and they are stronger. While girl is soft, walk slow, always crying, sit still, clean, and do housework. Man has to have a job, a head of household, and bread money the family, while woman has to have the family and take care of the children and house. When I'm still a little kid, I like to play "boy toys" like sword, soccer ball, superman, car and like to play with the boys. These in adult eyes were tag as unusual and different enough so that my family always mention these in my childhood age conversation. I also feel proud because of my unique and different than "normal girl" without realize why other think these behaviors so "unique". After taking sociology, I known that because I was breaking the gender norms in the society. I was breaking what people deep believed in and expected to be true. Like what Karl Marx believed in gender-conflict theory, there is the inequality between gender. The gender stratification exits not only in the past but in today society as well. We said more women are victims of sexual harassment than men but not said more men involved in sexual harassment crime than women. We said the woman got rape but we didn't say the man rape the woman. Even how we said and organized the sentence can show gender bias and sexism. For me, gender stratification is just the way to let one of the sex gain power and control over other. We have pornography to dehumanize women, we have demeanor and violence abuse to show men 's power. Like what radical feminism believed, we can't avoid gender stratification, unless there is no more gender. If the mother is the one who gave speech and the men were crying as the same time as other women, this scene will become real humor and have no weight. This is the power of patriarchy.Zero789
ReplyDeleteI agree that this is the most important part of the movie. I really wasn’t sure how the movie was going to end. Mr. Brayton gave the speech and came from a father’s heart and I didn’t feel that it screamed Patriarchy. I think the men were actively listening, because both Mr. Prentice and John felt that knew exactly what he was going to share. I think the women were crying maybe because they both thought Mr. Brayton was going to say that he wasn’t going to support this marriage. However I think everyone involved was relieved that with Mr. Brayton’s response and his support. In my family when visiting my grandparents on my father’s side it was expected that the women and girls “hens” hung out in the kitchen and the men and boys “roosters” hung out in the living room. My grandma was very uncomfortable if some of girls wanted to get to know grandpa more and visit with him. I think this would be an example of cultural lag. You are totally correct in your example of reversing the roles, the women gave the speech and the men cried. Everyone would have probably thought it was hilarious and it wouldn’t have been taken as seriously.
DeleteAnimalLover789
I also grew up being taught that girls show more emotion than boys do. Girls cry and need a strong man to go to and to protect them and such however there is two things to address with that. First off I was always that one of many girls who would be off playing sports or videogames with the guys rather than going out for coffee or doing hair with the other girls. I was often called a ‘tomboy’ and embraced it I loved being called that I took it as a compliment and moved on with my day. So yes to some people it may have been seen as not a global norm but to the community and society that I was raised in it was seen as a social norm for girls to play rough. Secondly, looking back on movies and shows from when I was growing up, they painted a picture and gave these little girls the ideas that their man needed to be tough and strong. The man had to slay the dragon and be the hero and save the day. The man had to protect the damsel in distress and get the girl in the end. So, I feel that in order to change these gender roles we would have to go back and change many great movies not get rid of gender. Now we have movies coming out where the female is the protagonist and saves the day which, in my opinion, is a step in the right direction. Cassiopia789
DeleteBy definition patriachy was definitely present in this scene. The journalist was the eldest male and head of his household, when he spoke everyone listened. His tone of voice was very assertive and authoritarian. When he called the meeting prior to giving his approval on his daughters marriage to a black man, doing so depicts a sense of control not over the individuals but over the current situation. Per societal roles men are said to lead the household, this was quite obvious throughout the film as occupations of all the men were mentioned but not that of the women. Because more then likely their jobs were within the home.
Deletemummyoftwo789
I will have to disagree. I see support given during the clip. However, I did not feel he was being control or trying to show patriarchy. I felt he definitely patriarchy in the beginning. He was trying to control how everyone thought Christina and Mike especially. He acted appalled that Mike didn't see anything wrong with the issue. Then he argued with Christina when she tried to say she was OK with the marriage. With him being the man he didn't like that he wanted her to say yes Matt you are right they can’t get married. She even tries to explain to her husband that they cannot be mad because they thought their child not to judge by race, sex or gender. As for this clip he did have everyone's focus which I believe was out of respect but he was more stating you have my blessing and Mr. Prentice he will be OK also. Gander 789
DeleteWhile I can understand what you are saying, I don’t feel like there was total patriarchy going on here. Yes everyone was listening to what Drayton was saying, but that’s because they had put the expectation on him that he would have to render a decision of approval or denial. They were showing him the respect of “having the floor” or it was his turn to speak. Had this been a patriarchal speech, since he was the eldest and most powerful man in the room, he would have told John’s father that not only will he give approval to the marriage, but John’s father would be giving approval to the marriage as well. His tone was stiff in beginning I will agree, but he wanted to make sure that his point about loving his wife was conveyed properly. His tone then changes to a more loving and understanding tone when addressing John and Joanna which solidified my opinion that it was more of the parental guidance, not patriarchy. pmed789
DeleteI do agree that the father of the bride is the one assuming the patriarchal family roll pointing at the power that society has in terms of prejudice about racial marriage about who to socialize with and how as process of socialization based on social forces and this being perceived as second deviance by society established norms.
DeleteWhile he was talking to everyone involved in this situation he made a point about some people being wrong about how he felt and that hadn’t seen it they way it was said to them but that doesn't mean that he didn't have feelings about it. More importantly was that he mentioned how Dr. Prentice told them that he wouldn't marry his daughter if there is opposition from them he wouldn't marry his daughter. Then he said that their opinion doesn't matter if two wonderful people that fell in love want to get marry. Koi789
In this situation the dad is giving both his support and is presenting a very patriarchal role. The way he is talking to all the people in the room brings out his generation. He doesn’t ask for anyone to sit down. He tells everyone to sit down, because he is the head of the house. The Dr.’s father was putting off a very patriarchal tone as well. He insisted that him and the other father go into a separate room to talk about the issue because they are in charge. In this time, society was beginning to not only conform to racial equality, but it was starting to conform to gender equality. Women were working in factories in World War II and they continued in the work place even to modern day. Even the older generation women still followed the belief that the man of the house has the power.
ReplyDeleteJust as well, the father is being very accepting of the situation with race in the house. He is treating his company as regular company in his household. Racial inequality is not residual for him. This shows that the father is conforming to the new cultural way.
The father is also giving his support to the Doctor and daughter. He essentially is telling them that he is accepting what they want and he agrees that they deserve it. He tells them that they won’t have any issues from him. But they will have issues from the rest of the world. Society is going to see them differently and not interpret the situation the same as the doctor and the daughter do.
In a sociological perspective this situation poses an anomaly. The father is very dominant because of the upbringing of his generation, so he is more demanding to his family and guests. We also see that he has taken part in establishing racial equality, so he has conformed to a newer societal way and does not have cultural lag.
ViciousAfro789
Replies
DeleteI agree. I think at the end, he is giving his own perspective and opinion on what he believes. But he is also being accepting of their relationship. No matter who the person is, they are still loved. He taught his daughter as she grew up to be accepting of others as they do the same in return. But to get to where he was at the end, he had to get other opinions. He spoke with all of the parents including outsiders of the family to get a better perspective of the situation. That is almost always the best option to help with issues. Schmidt789
I also believe that the dad is giving both his support and presenting a patriarchal role. Throughout the whole movie the dad makes it seem like his decision is going to be the final decision but towards the end he shows that he does love his daughter and he just wants her to be happy. He also did this by making the men go in to a different room to talk because to them they are the ones in charge, it shows how in that time men were in charge and got to make all of the executive decisions. It was a good idea that he spoke to all of the people and got everyone’s perspective. I liked how he ended it by saying no matter what race a person is or what religion they practice love is love. EPIC789
DeleteThis conversation was important for both sides of the family. I agree that although men are normally known as the head leader of a house hold and they make the final say so, I believe both men had to look at this situation a little different since their children were involved. Yes, society will judge them different. But, if everyone is supportive they could come together as two different cultural families and change society's mind on their relationships. It may not be accepting at first but eventually people wont look at the difference and accept it for what it is.
Deleteunknownzeeha789
I agree that the father did have some patriarchal tendencies in this scene and throughout the movie he was very demanding and when he was telling them that he didn't agree with what they were doing he felt as if it wasn't going to happen just because he said that. He did kind of change towards the end when he announced that he accepted his daughters relationship.
DeleteCrown789
I believe it’s a little of both patriarchy, as well as showing support. Dr. Prentice wanted both Mr. and Mrs. Drayton’s approval before he would marry their daughter. But Mr. Drayton’s approval was more substantial and meaningful. Dr. Prentices implicit bias about how Mr. Drayton would feel knowing that his daughter is willing to conform to deviant behavior by marrying outside her race. Patriarchy comes into play when Mr. Drayton used his master status of being a man. In traditional societies as well as some societies today, the man is considered the head of the house. The conversation was controlled by him, he talked, and everyone listened, and dinner was not served until he finished his speech. However, there was no evidence of gender inequality. He stated, “the three of them will work on John’s father”. That statement clearly shows that he feels both woman is equal, and their opinion is just as important. Not particularly in this clip but I believe matriarchy had an influence on Mr. Drayton’s decision. After the shock wore off, Mrs. Drayton immediately saw the love her daughter and Dr. Prentice felt for each other. She expressed that while having a conversation with Mr. Drayton before dinner. Maybe, he did not want his wife to label him as a racist. During his speech Mr. Drayton addressed ageism and discussed the racial prejudice and discrimination John and Joey will endure. He may be old and worn out, but he still knows how it feels to be in love. Stepping into his gender role of father, he wants the best for his daughter and wants her to be happy. He socialized her to believe that she is not superior to blacks and everyone is equal. Although he never considered how they felt about one another, Mr. Drayton realized that Dr. Prentice and Joey live in a different constructed reality but also know the challenges they face ahead.
ReplyDeleteGranny 789
I personally believe that calling this scene patriarchal is a bit of a stretch, however I also believe that your points are spot on. He may have utilized his status as a man, and as the master of the household, to control the situation easily, but I have a sneaking suspicion that even if he was a she, he’d (she’d?) still find a way to take the stage, and make their opinion known, just as every female character had the guts to challenge him. That can be attributed to his strong, straightforward personality that comes with his line of work, and the type of life he lived because of it. In the end, he made a decision that respected everyone’s opinion, seeking happiness for his daughter. He pushed forward, remembering the love he felt for his wife; Matt Drayton’s acceptance of his daughter’s happiness began with accepting his own happiness, almost forgotten.
Delete-SoarSore789
It true that the father did show his support to his daughter’s marriage. But I still see some of the patriarchy behavior in this scene. Like what you said above, the dinner will only star after the father speech and his support is weight more than other support ( his friend and the two wifes). While mention the equality and important of the women, he is also showing of his power. The speech which he gave within 5 minutes is not enough to cover his attitude and behavior toward his wife in half of the movie. He was angry because his age but also angry because no body taking his side (he sense of the overcome of power). He may gave the speech with true heart to support his daughter but que can denied that his decision are just change after his wife’s argument that will stay with his daughter and fight him, and the talk with Dr. Prestines’ mother (he is disagreed with what she said about how aging make fogrot the love). He stared the speech by denied the statement of Dr. Prestines’ mother and scold at Joley to shut up. I not said what he said is wrong, I like his support. But in the personally, I do believed that the more time pass by, the thing called ‘love’ fading, especially is men.( Isn’t this sound like matriarchy? Or stereotypes?). The point here is how people see these problem. If there is no any of patriarchy, how can we measure the matriarchy? Overall, his speech is emotion and very meaningful to the couple and on this racism matter. (Gender? )
DeleteZero789
This is one of the best endings to a movie I think I have seen in a very long time. It shows us that even though you may have your own beliefs, you can put them aside whether they are strong or not, in order to make the ones you love and care about happy and let them know they are loved. At the beginning of this film, it could have been an example of patriarchy. But at the end, when Mr. Drayton puts his feelings aside to make them both happy, it proves to the audience that it is nothing like patriarchy. Patriarchy is a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line. In today’s society, this is the way it is like in households. The eldest male is the man of the house and during the speech Matt gave before dinner, he made sure nobody was talking and everyone was listening. At the beginning of this movie, the parents find out that they are planning on getting married and so both of the fathers have their own bias opinions on their relationship based on their ageism, social stratification, and their own experiences with racism. John admits to Joanna’s Mother and Father that if they do not approve of their marriage, they will not follow through with it. He believes that relationships with family are extremely important and if by her marrying him ruins it, then he will cancel their plan. At the end, almost every one of the parents end up being on good terms with their decision and are happy for them. There happens to be no gender inequality based on his statement of all of the parents working on Dr. Prentice’s father to get him to understand. Matt goes on to tell them that if the two of them have half of what he and his wife have, they will make it through anything, including complications in society and their belief system. No matter what race, age, ethnicity, or religion you are. This film helps prove that love is love. And if you care about a person, you cannot control who they are. Schmidt789
ReplyDeleteThis was a fantastic ending to the movie. It was powerful and proved we can overcome our own belief systems. I don't think he puts his feelings aside as much as he actually comes to his senses. The social stratification was completely shattered once Matt made the speech at the end of the movie (which was admittedly expected) I felt great at the end though, his speech was great and Dr. Prentice's father had to put his egoic ways aside and really embrace the moment. QuinkThick789
DeletePersonally, I see this scene as a father performing his role in giving his support rather than a patriarchy. A patriarchy is defined as a form of social organization in which males dominate the females. Since this scene is simply the father explaining and giving permission for his daughter to marry a man. To me that is not males dominating females, when I think of that I think of arranged marriages with where women are forced into new statuses because the father tells the girl they are to be married to this man. The ascribed status to me is where a patriarchy would come into effect for this example. Yes, technically our society is a patriarchy since it is dominated by men but in Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner; Dr. Prentice, a male, states he would not marry Joanna unless both Mr. and Mrs. Drayton approved of the marriage. If it was truly a patriarchy then why would Dr. Prentice want to make sure Mrs. Drayton “had no reserves about the marriage” as well as Mr. Drayton. It also shows that there is little to no gender stratification in this situation for Mr. and Mrs. Drayton. Now when it comes to gender roles they are very apparent in this scene and throughout the movie. It shows the mothers crying and showing emotion while the men stay strong and keeping it together not shedding any tears. It also addressed ageism when Mr. Drayton denied Mrs. Prentice’s claim that “he cannot remember what it was like to love a woman as her son loves his daughter”. Going back to Mr. Drayton giving support to his daughter and the marriage he mentions the racism, discrimination and other prejudice results that may come about from the interracial marriage the effect it may have on not only Dr. Prentice and Joanna but on their children as well because of miscegenation. Until the day that pluralism happens which is when people of all races and ethnicity are distinct but have equal social standings. Cassiopia789
ReplyDeleteI think throughout the entire movie there is a good amount of Patriarchal tones and elements. However in the clip provided, it would appear that this is simply a case of a father giving advice and wisdom to the kids. Patriarchy is defined as “a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property”. In our book it speaks of the power established in a patriarchal relationship. Men have the ability to achieve desired ends despite the resistance from others. He was not trying to achieve HIS goal in the clip and wanted to put aside the societal norms of the times. He realized that he was wrong in his previous thinking and that the love between the couple means everything and that they will be fine despite the rampant racism that is plaguing the nation during that time period. He is simply giving his daughter permission to marry a black man and not asserting dominance over her. If anything, he is submitting to their will of wanting to get married. He has put his feelings of superiority aside and just wants to see his daughter happy. It can be seen that the father of the Dr. is still not accepting of this and if it were his way, the marriage would not happen. Had the movie gone this direction, this would have definitely been Patriarchy. Still today we can still see this racial tension when a mixed couple is together. I think that it has gotten better by a long shot, and it all depends on where we live in the United States and the immediate cultures surrounding the couple.. Places that are more progressive will generally be more accepting of this type of relationship whereas places that are more conservative will tend to meet this kind of relationship with resistance or outright discrimination. There are still parts of this country, even 50+ years after this movie was made, that still do not embrace the idea of multiculturalism. This movie is set just after the black suffrage which gave black people the right to vote and would still be hard to accept that a white woman and a black man would want to be married. pmed789
ReplyDeleteI both agree and disagree. For me, much of the patriarchal overtones of this movie came from the discussion of Joanna as though she were and object to be given or taken away. This came from both Matt and John, who over and over discuss whether or not there will be a marriage, discussing Matt's consent as though John is proposing marriage to Matt instead of Joanna herself. Joanna's feelings are rarely discussed, unless they are brought up by her mother, Christina, a woman. Christina is then dismissed by Matt for being too emotional. It is like she is a child, unable and distrusted to make her own choices, both by her father and her chosen mate, even though she is the singular character in the film who shows no sign of wavering. Instead it is left up to the men whether she is allowed to marry, what is 'best' for her, whether or not she'll be happier doing this or that. Secrets are kept from her, her opinion is never asked, and she is talked over and told blantantly to shut up. But is this because Matt doesn't love his daughter, or because John doesn't love Joanna? No, it's the exact opposite. I firmly believe that both men deeply, deeply love Joanna, and they want nothing more than for her to be happy and well, and they are a product of their generation and were raised to take control of a situation in this way. It is a symptom of BOTH fatherly love and patriarchy in my opinion, and I think you're entirely correct in saying that he was not trying to establish his goal, because of his intense love for his daughter, but he was still holding the majority of the power, and the role of leadership, which is one of the main issues, in my opinion.
DeleteBuwowski222
My opinion is the same as Buwowski222. In your post, pmed789, you even say the very thing that supports my argument: that Patriarchy is the dominance of men over women in positions of leadership, moral authority, control of property, and social privilege. The men in this situation, Matt Drayton and John Prentice, showed a moral authority, and a control of property over the women. The entire monologue was based on John Prentice’s choice to rely on the parent’s decision to cancel the marriage, without telling his fiancée about it. Both men seem to ignore the women yet speak for their interests at the same time, dismissing their arguments because it was based on emotion. In the end he spoke to the group to not only tell the engaged couple to not choose to get married or not based on their decisions, but also because his opinion had the greatest weight. It was socialized at the time, that as the man of the house, he had to take authority towards all others because that was his duty as the man. If he didn’t approve, the marriage would be canceled without Joey’s choice, or with regards towards her opinion as an adult woman because of the gender stratification involved with the gender roles assigned to Joey’s sex.
DeletePapyrus789
When Mr. Drayton makes his speech towards the end of the movie, I believe he is being a patriarch about things, but not nearly as much as he is just being a supportive father. I feel like the patriarchy of it comes from seemingly everyone involved, especially John Prentice Jr., putting so much importance on what Mr. Drayton has to say about things. He even says in his speech that not even he himself thinks his decision is that important, but that the way they make each other feel is everything. It seems to me that Mr. Drayton does not have any true issues with his daughter marrying a man of color, but more so with the issues they are going to face from the public as an interracial couple. He even says so himself that he did not even begin to think about how his daughter and John might actually feel about each other. Once John's mother mentions that factor of the situation, you can tell on Mr. Drayton's face that he is instantly rethinking the entire situation.
ReplyDeleteThroughout this entire movie, and in this short clip especially, there is another big message that I saw. Love is a very strong thing, and it has been said that it has the power to overcome just about anything. In this movie, love had the power to overcome racial boundaries, and it had the power to sway the decisions of Joanna's parents and John's mother, but not so much his father. However, given a little bit more time Mr. Prentice may start to come around, seeing as they were all blindsided by the situation and left with only one evening to make a decision. In the beginning of the movie, Tillie came off as seeming even more upset about the couple than anyone else involved. This was not the response I was expecting at all. Seeing as Tillie is a woman of color, I assumed that she would be the most accepting about things. It seems that even she had come to terms with things in the end.White789
I agree that throughout the movie Mr. Drayton felt the need to have control over every situation and needed to have the authority. No matter how unsure he was about his daughter’s marriage, he just wanted her to be happy and did not want her to get hurt because he knew how cruel the world can be. Dr. Prentice was putting so much weight behind Mr. Drayton’s word due to the fact that he is planning on marrying his daughter and wanted to receive his blessing. Dr. Prentice knew how close Joanna is to her parents and he never wanted to come between her and her family. He knew how important that is because he had felt the loss of his own family. I concur that love is a powerful emotion and does amazing things to the world and the people in it.
DeleteMelRich895
I believe this was patriarchy at the beginning of Mr. Drayton’s speech. He presented his self as the authoritarian figure letting everyone in the room know he’s in charge with his non-verbal communication, tone of voice, and the way he walked around the room. He controlled the conversation as he addressed each person in the room. The fact that Dr. Prentice was black was a small factor. I agree his main issue was miscegenation. Although he expresses no prejudice or discrimination towards interracial marriage, he wanted to make sure both Dr. Prentice and Joanna understood the “unimaginable” problems they will come up against, which they already experienced at the beginning of the movie with Tillie. You said that you did not expect that response, since Tillie was a woman of color. I believe some African Americans have more prejudices that European Americans when it comes to interracial marriage, especially if the man is black and the woman is white. Then towards the end of his speech, he becomes more supportive. His body language is more relaxed and welcoming. He even has a glow in his eyes when he really considered and finally seen how they felt about one another. He came to terms that because of their love for one another, Dr. Prentice and Joanna will have the strength and courage to take on whatever may come their way.
DeleteGranny 789
In the beginning of the movie I would not have thought Mr. Drayton would have responded the way he did in this clip. In the beginning he acted like a patriarchy and showed sexism by trying to control everything. By telling his wife he can’t agree with them getting married it’s not the norm. Even calling about John to see if he could find shocking news about him other than him being a different race and wanting to marry his daughter. Matt and Mr. Prentice sat there and talked telling each other we have to stop this madness before they both do something they will regret. Instead he said John went wrong by worrying to much what him and Christina thought about the marriage. Mr. Drayton realizes how much John cares about Joanna because he remembers how much he loved Christina and still loves her. Mr. Drayton also states that they both have to realize the problems they both will face. The racist comments, or the horrific looks. People are going to be shocked, offended, and appalled of them just because it not the cultural norm. Race should say with the same race, man should not sleep with same sex, and you are born the gender you were meant to be. This way of thinking is bias and the more generation grow, the more our thinking expands. In today society the majority of people don’t believe in this. Yes, racism is still an issue but nothing like it was 50 years ago. I don’t think about it when I see different races walking together or holding hands. Mr. Drayton tell his daughter and John you too will up against a lot but if you stay together and say screw those people you will do just fine. He makes a joke saying in time they will get Mr. Prentice to agree also but it’s nobody’s choice but theirs so as long as there happy he won’t stop them. Gander789
ReplyDeleteI agree I was not expecting him to respond the way he did either. As the movie went on he seemed to really struggle with the decision of accepting their love or not. He did seem to hold more of the control of the situation. After all John did say if he didn’t have the acceptance of both parents then the wedding was off. Mr. Dayton did seem genuinely surprised by what he found out about John. Almost as if he was surprised a colored man could accomplish what John had accomplished so far and by the news of what he wants to do in the future. At that point in the past if I was raised the way Joey was raised I am sure I would have made the same decision. She was so sure that John would be accepted by her parents because of the way they raised her. Cultural norm or not she knew deep down that her parents would support her decision to marry a colored man. As far as patriarchy goes i do believe that in this instance it falls hand in hand with Mr. Dayton giving his support. He is warning the couple of the troubles they will face but the decision was solely resting on his blessing.
ReplyDelete-Slimjim789
In this video clip I believe the dad is giving advice but also somewhat playing a patriarchal role. You can tell that the dad is still against it but he is willing to put his beliefs aside and let his daughter be happy which is the part of the dad giving advice, he is showing that he is still in charge but he is also okay with it now. According to a definition on Webster dictionary patriarchy is when the father or eldest male is head of the family. The dad shows this by making everyone sit down and stop talking. The Dr gave him the title of it by saying he will not marry his daughter without his approval, he was giving the dad the power to make the decision. The father is also being a little bit accepting of the different race, and treating them as he would treat anyone else. He does also let them know that even though he approves that there are going to be many people who do not accept it and they may be discriminated against. An example of this would-be Hillary, she was so confused and stereotypical when she saw her with a colored man. Throughout the whole movie you could see the typical gender roles. The dads acted like they were in charge the whole time and they seemed like they did not even care what the women thought. When the daughter’s mom confronted the dad he became very upset because back then it was frowned upon for the wife to ever confront the father. The very last thing the dad says is that if they love each other like him and his wife do they will have a successful marriage, that no matter what age or race or religion you are love is love. EPIC789
ReplyDeleteI agree that the way he sat everyone down was a sign of patriarchy, along with him speaking his mind to each person how he felt. I feel that the patriarchy, or head of house, effect was brought upon Mr. Drayton when everyone was making a seemingly big deal about what he had to say about things. John said that he would not marry Joey unless they had her father's approval, and if they could not get it that he would call everything off. In my opinion, that is placing way too much importance on one man's word, seeing as there are four parents involved, all with their own opinions. I also like that you mentioned Hillary, I did not like her attitude towards things at all, and I was very shocked yet impressed to see how Mrs. Drayton handled things with her. I can understand everyone's concern for the couple and having to face situations such as that one because people can be very cruel over trivial things such as this.White789
DeleteI agree that the role of patriarchy was in a way given to Mr. Drayton by Dr. Prentice telling him that it ultimately does down to his vote. However the role of the male being the head of the family and superior to everyone else is a very old tradition. In earlier times of America it was the father or husband who provided for the family and made all the decisions for the family as well. In the movie clip Mr. Drayton is the only one standing which sows his role of being in charge of the situation. However, in my opinion it is not all patriarchal because the ultimate decision of his daughter’s marriage lays within his hands. So I believe it is a mix of patriarchy and free will that everyone is sitting and listening because he was adopted at the decision maker of the group.
DeleteNavajo789
3. Hearing Joey’s dad finally come around and accept the fact that Joey and John is fully committed to pursuing a married relationship with each other. Visualizing this scenario in reality and putting myself in John’s shoes would definitely plan out exactly the same because my dad is a very straight blunt person and wouldn’t hold back for anyone. So from watching this video I definitely admire the courage from both parents as a whole and more so the fathers. Because they were the ones who John and Joey really needed to convince that they both can handle the upcoming struggles that they may endure in the future. It was really funny hearing Mr. Dayton tell Joey to shut up because she wouldn’t stop talking and because she always takes things to the extreme. Everyone thought that Joey was blind by the pure emotion of love and didn’t see the real problem with them being together and Mr. Dayton wanted for Joey to completely understand where he was coming from. My little sister is the same way that you have to sit her down and slowly go over what you want to know in order for her to understand. If you look carefully in the video you would recognize that everyone in the room was amazed to what the final outcome of Mr. Dayton’s opinion because ever since he met John and ended up finding out why he was there he was against the idea of them being together and getting married. If that was my dad there would be no chance in hell that he will accept the idea back, then because my dad is all about being independent and strict with things. So if that was me and my dad changed his mind like that would definitely mean the world to me. The funniest character from this movie was Monsieur Ryan. Monsieur Ryan liked John because of all his credentials that he has and also because John and Joey are trying to form something new that has never been done in that day in age. Overall watching Mr. Dayton have a change of heart shows that humans are not perfect and that it’s always good to try new things.-NIKE789
ReplyDeleteIn this video the father of the bride shows a patriarchal family support when he start pointing out the events of that particular night that brought them to roller-coaster emotional experience due to the interracial love that his daughter and his soon to be son in-law put them trough by falling in love so quickly and arranging marriage without further notice.
ReplyDeleteIt is almost that the black African American where victims of a population exclusion about who to fall in love with. Mr. Prentice said that I am some kind of a nut and his wofe said that like her husband I am burned old shell of a man that doesn't remember what it is to love a woman the same way that her son loves my doughter. Let me tell you that you are wrong as can ever be I admit that I hadn’t consider it but I know that her son loves my daughter the same way I felt when I felt in love with Christina. Well John (Dr. prentice) made a mistake was attaching much importance about what Christina and I think since the most important thing is about how they feel and how they feel. He did showed a range of total spread of values in a set of figures sociologically speaking of course.
Than he warn them about the racial opposition about everyone since they against anyone for breaking a sociological norm. Koi789
This video is a prime example of Patriarchy at its finest. Not because of the words Mr. Drayton says or how he says them, but because he has to say them at all. His precious approval is the entire reason that the movie even has rising action. Mrs. Drayton has no problems with the marriage, Mrs. Prentice has no problems with it, and Mr. Prentice has massive problems with it though his objections are shot down by his son, Dr. Prentice. It is solely the approval of the father-of-the-bride-to-be that they pursue in the plot, but why? Patriarchy is so deeply ingrained in our society that we expect, nay, WANT the powerful father figure to take charge and save the day. Would the movie be as interesting with a mother-figure in his place? It might not be received in that way. She would be seen as a witch and a harpy, hating the happiness of the young couple and probably wanting the young man for herself instead. The movie wouldn’t have good ratings, wouldn't do well in the box office, and would be counted as, at best, a feminist propaganda film. The media has traditionally placed men in roles of power and authority while the women are automatically subservient to them. If a woman or girl takes on these traits, she is portrayed as deviant for wanting the same power and choices as a man. The sheer fact that we have this as an open-ended question is living proof that the patriarchy is well and alive. Going back to the movie, Joey is content to turn over this life-changing decision to her parents for their approval. It isn’t mentioned in the movie, but after the happy couple are married, whose last name are they expected to take? His. The patriarchy has us so trained to always take the male familial name when married that anything else is seen as strange and out of the ordinary. Not only that, but what kind of career is joey expected to have? She isn’t expected to have one, because she is the wife of a doctor. Her sole purpose will be to raise a family and take care of both them and her husband. Not until both men and women have equal representation in all parts of life, from birth to school to career to death will we have true equality. Minty789
ReplyDeleteWhile initially he verbalized his lack of agreeance toward the union of his daughter and her African American fiancé, he later accepted the invitation during a family meeting. Mr. Drayton had a way with words so I am certain being a newspaper publisher and not a baseball player was his calling. Men were said to be leaders of the household and bring home the bread and butter so indeed he was the patriarch/authoritarian within his household but in this clip, not so much. His words flowed nicely, although upfront there was a nice touch of encouragement throughout his speech. The love he has for his wife and daughter resonated throughout the movie, and he made it very clear how he felt once it was brought into question. Eyes began to water towards the end of the scene as he brought attention to the soon to be bride and groom. He wanted them to know exactly what they would be up against...unimaginable problems, one hundred million people will be shocked, offended, and appalled by the decision of a white and black couple marrying he proclaimed. He felt as though the couple could handle all of life’s woes, only if they rode it out together, ignored people, or even felt some sort of guilt for them. In the end not placing emphasis too much on how others feel or what they feel but how the couple feel for one another, was the point Mr. Drayton drove home with! People can’t help who they fall in love with nor the color of their skin. In retrospect, all it takes is a select few to challenge society, you even have to go against the grain sometimes. Ultimately, we must stand up for who and what we believe in!
ReplyDeletemummyoftwo789
In a way I consider this as just him giving his support, but there are patriarchal elements to be seen from this clip. You see this not only from the behaviors of the men, but of also from the women. On one side he was giving support, saying how the parent’s opinion shouldn’t matter because of their feelings for each other despite the chance of racism occurring from their miscegenation. Yet in the end the people with all the power in this situation were the men, Matt Drayton and John Prentice. The entire monologue was based on John Prentice’s choice to rely on the parent’s decision to cancel the marriage, without telling his fiancée about it. Both men seem to ignore the women yet speak for their interests at the same time. The mother of John Prentice, said that men lose their passion as they grow older and that’s why they can’t relate to John and Joanna’s situation. This statement, while prejudiced, had the effect of getting Drayton to truly consider his daughter’s happiness. Women are socialized to be passive, emotional, and focused on the feminine areas while men are stereotyped as rational, assertive and masculine, which was considered better than being feminine, which is sexist. Women’s gender roles at the time supported gender stratification. They were daughters, wives, and mothers, before they were considered women. That’s why the women supported the couple better at first than the men, because they were socialized to be more sensitive and compassionate towards other people’s feelings. But though socialized that way, humans are a socially driven species that depend on culture. While a man was delivering a speech as the head of the household, it was more of a “I had a change of heart – this entire evening was me struggling with the idea that my daughter was marrying a black man, of course I’m ending it on my terms!” than something patriarchal. However, if Drayton decided to not support them, John would’ve canceled the wedding as Joey’ heart is broken from both of their actions. They both dismiss the women’s opinions because they displayed a strong emotional reaction. I believe, in the end, it was just Drayton telling them to do what they want to do, not something entirely patriarchal.
ReplyDeletePapyrus789
Beau Richards is not correct when she says that when men grow old and when sexual things no longer matter to them they forget all, they forget what true passion is. What happen when men grow old is the loss of sex driving, because sexual functioning changes in mid-life, and it affects by biology, it is a physical issue. Aging is a gradual, ongoing change in the body
ReplyDeleteWhen men grow old the sex driving decrease, but in every man may be variable, because there are different factors or reason that lead to the decline of sex driving. One of the first factors is the decline of the testosterone, however in some cases could be illness, medications, and the quality of their relationship.
I think that when men grow old they do not forget the passion. I had an uncle that became a dad one more time at sixty-two and he was so happy. Some famous older adults shows that older people can be sexy as Madonna, 59 years old who is still active in the music industry.
Finally, I can say that Mrs. Richard is wrong because an old man who once loved his wife with intensity cannot forget the passion he put into that relationship when he was young, “old, yes, burn-out? Certainly but I can tell you the memory is still there clear, intact, indestructible and it’ll be there…” Spencer Tracy.
The_soccer_league789
Mr. Drayton has a very strong personality that was portrayed to us differently throughout this movie. It seems that at this time being of the male sex gave you the permission to be the leader of the household. It isn’t easy for me to determine whether or not he is just showing his idea of patriarchy, or if there is a slight form of sexism going on, or if he is just a concerned father. I do believe that he showed signs of all three. I do not believe that he really meant to show signs of patriarchy but they may have come off that way when he basically told everyone to come to the room and sit and listen because he had something to say. I believe in this time the father was the head of the family and everyone listened when he spoke. This is a form of sexism in my eyes. I do, however, believe that even though he was concerned about this marriage, he truly cared about the well-being of these two when entering into the relationship like this at that time when it was illegal in most states still. He did say his peace when explaining that this would not be easy. He believed that for two people who truly understand the limitations and struggles and prejudice that they will be faced with as well as their children in the future, it would be silly to not get married. Especially if they still are in love and willing to take on this challenge after knowing all of the bias and judgments that will be placed on them. MommaJ789
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