When the world of transgender people was recently brought to light in recent years to me, at first I did not necessarily understand nor did i really agree with it. And still today I don't see the point, i am happy with the biological gender I was born into and I don't want to change it at all. However not everyone is me, and some people are just not happy with their own skin, or their own body and want to change it. And I totally am all for it, if you think it will benefit you and doesn’t negatively affect anyone else go for it. I also don't understand the hate for someone who wants to do something to make themselves feel better or become their true selves, and some people find it themselves by transitioning into another gender, and thats okay. during the interview the woman interviewing the couple says the image of Thomas being pregnant is “disturbing” I just wanted to address this because not only is it far from anything disturbing it also shows that this is a great example of cultural deviancy. This is not normal, it's not bad but it, it's just a normal everyday thing you see. It’s a pretty rare sight to see a man pregnant. However with modern technology it is absolutely possible to see that more often. It may be strange to some of us behind the curve but the open minded will welcome something like this. Just because you don’t like it does not mean you can call it wrong or disgusting. This is what this person wanted to do. Does it harm you? Does it affect you in anyway? Or does it just make you upset? No, and people still have the nerve to call this man and his baby an “abomination” it amazes me that someone going against the grain, and challenging the norm can create such hate. But that is deviancey of it. It is a necessary “evil” if you will. It changes the tide from rejection to acceptance eventually. We are too concerned pushing our ideas on things we’re unfamiliar with. For example “who is the mother and who is the father” who cares? As long as the child is raised healthy, pointed in the right direction, and is educated who really cares about what label we can put on the parents, besides just that, parents. In the end of the video its like they’re talking about its 2 bears raising a child, they list off all of the things they do like “normal parents” and its hilarious to me that if its not a cookie-cutter family its just not right and wont work. Like its so amazing that a transgender man and a woman raise a child together. Also the interviewers reaction to the second pregnancy is golden, she seemed horrified by the fact they would have another kid, this is so out of the ordinary it freaks people out and that's what makes it so interesting, they’re still people still having human children. BossMan012
I also didn’t really understand or agree with this at first, until I watched the interview. Then after getting all the facts it made a bit more since. I myself can never see wanting to change my gender, but if someone decides to that is really their choice and can make the decision if they see fit. Yes it will come with some backlash but if this is something a person strongly feels and wants then it’s their free will. I believe that a person’s social class has apart in the nature of a person also. When a certain group people have things and feelings of the same nature they tend to not care as much on how others view them. It’s all most like getting tattoos all over your body and going out in public away from your social group, you will probably have a lot of people who will view you differently and put a label on you without knowing anything about you. I think if more people had the chance to venture outside of their box and opened their eyes and just take a moment to think about how large the world is and that it’s many different cultures, religions, and life styles other than what someone is accustomed to. Just me012
I totally agree with you. Personally, I don't necessarily agree with the transgender thing either. I feel like you were born for a reason the way you were. I feel like you don't have change yourself. At the same time though society accepts it and people are free to do what they want. prettygirlhd012
This video and story is complex, convoluted, and fascinating for many different reasons. First off, it is extremely important that when discussing this video, we distinguish between questions of value and morals (right and wrong) and other discussions that are based in sociological terminology and logic.
Firstly, discussing purely the logic of the scenario, I personally do not at all understand or comprehend the “wonder” or “amazement” of this occurence. It appears that there was an insane amount of awe and unbelief that came from the public and strangers when this event took place. Every one seemed baffled and struck dumb at the sheer thought and novel idea of the first pregnant man. However, this doesn’t really make sense. This image is indeed a bizarre one and one that people are not altogether familiar with, but biologically, the person who gave birth to the baby is a woman (keep in mind, I am speaking strictly in terms of biology here). It is not as though someone who was born with male genitalia was suddenly with child - the steps taken to begin the pregnancy were truthfully nothing new, foreign, or groundbreaking: female egg and male sperm put together and meeting in order that they might form a baby that would then go on to grow inside of a uterus. No matter how the person identifies or feels gender-wise (not talking morals here) the body of the individual in question remains a woman’s - point blank. Surgery cannot change DNA.
Going off of that point, however, one thing that is pretty amazing is that the baby was not harmed in any way and did not suffer any hormonal issues from the fluctuating hormones of her biological mother, nor did she seem to suffer any disfigurations due to being born in a body that had been altered.
Now, in terms of the sociological aspect, the reason that this is so complicated is that this was the first occurrence of a women’s body that was treated with testosterone to then proceed with the process of a pregnancy - it makes complete and total sense that the situation is alarming.
Now to move on to discuss the values and/or the morality of the instance. One thing that is a possible negative of gender-reassignment is that it is not accepting oneself for who they are. In every other case of people not feeling comfortable in their own skin, the steps they take to try to feel better are often not positive ones. When someone believes themselves to be overweight, the extremely unhealthy habit of anorexia develops. Additionally, people are always promoting the idea of being comfortable with yourself as you are - not as you want to be. If you are always in search of your ideal, it can often be very difficult to be truly happy and content because it is never in your grasp.
Finally, to mention the morality of the debate, everyone has different thoughts about this. However, no matter what you believe, it is important that everyone be respectful of each other. I am a Christian, and I don’t necessarily feel as though this is right, but those opinions in NO WAY justifies any sort of disrespect or violence against anyone else’s way of life (so long as it doesn’t hurt others). We are all people, and the only way to get along is to be kind to one another - we all have something to learn.
I can see your debate, you think it’s not right as a Christian and that's fine. I as a Christian have no problems with it, its not hurting me in any way. First, I just think that is Mr. Mums business and not everybody else's. I can see why it would be a story in the media. But, at the end of day, it is what it is because is not like the people are going to stop him from doing it. I care for others, but if this man wants to do that, than let him be. - LILPUMP012
I also agree with your sentiment about the amount of surprise when the news broke that a transgender man could carry a child. While yes, it is definitely a break in our societal norms, it is pretty basic biologically. "When mommy and daddy love each other very much"...etc. I am torn about the argument of personal acceptance. While I agree that we should all feel comfortable in the bodies that we were given, and not take any drastic measures to try and conform to society, I think this scenario takes on a whole different dynamic. I guess I imagine it as being trapped inside of a body that you know is not who you are, and I would imagine that is terrifying and frustrating, especially in a society where coming out as transgender or homosexual, etc, can be extremely daunting. -CSP012
I like how you mentioned feeling like you’re stuck in the wrong body could bring about frustration and fear. I feel like as a society we tend to blur out the emotional states that we encounter and try to only focus on the physical state in which we are in. When differences like this happen I feel like it would be easier to talk about if we were mindful of each other's individual baggage and feelings. Whether you’re homosexual or transgender you're not just fighting that battle with yourself but also with society because we’re too stubborn to say “since you are the one living your life day to day, it may be wise to try to let you have control over it”. When we take away individuals’ rights to think and act freely, we say forget how you feel because emotions don’t affect everyone else. LayBae012
In the video Transgender, Birth, and Thoughts, at first I didn’t know what to expect, or what or how this is even possible and why go from a female to a male and back to a female. It even sounds out the normal just saying it to myself. But after watching the video I came to a better understanding about the situation. The first thing that I noticed in the video is that they mentioned his mother committed suicide, and I believe even though his father wanted him to do modeling and all the things that a young woman should do was too much pressure and that he might have been missing the mother role in his life and was adapting more so of the father, and could have lead up to wanting to become a man. Also they explained why he wanted to have the child himself, he and his wife didn’t want that burden on a stranger and the main reason was because they both wanted a child of their own but she couldn’t have children. I myself am a person who never judges anyone so this made more since once this main fact was brought to my attention, if they are in love and want to have a child and bring the child up in a positive environment with love and care, more power to them! I am not saying that everyone would except it and that the child may have problems when out in society from those that are not as excepting as others, but they really shouldn’t worry about it because it’s not as if the family isn’t causing any harm to anyone but wanting to live as a ordinary family, but the reality of it as he mentioned is that a lot of people are crazy and want to harm them. I have come to learn people are afraid of things that are different or the unknown. I myself don’t have the time to wonder about another person and their business because of my own life and problems along with my daily routines. The community and their neighbors gave them support leading up to them having their child which was something that they didn’t have to do but showed much class and maturity they have and the kind of upbringing that they were taught, and probably came to the realization of the situation. Meaning that they are not any different from them but just want to play the role in society just as any other normal family just as we all do. Everyone may agree or disagree on this type of topic men may not care a little bit less then woman, woman may not be able to bare children in the same situation as his wife and may feel as it is not as fare. But after taking in all the facts and details I can see why took this direction, and as long as they are not producing creatures that want to harm us, I think they should have as many as they please without the input of those that just see something as strange or not normal in societies eyes. Just me 012
In the video Transgender, Birth, and Thoughts, at first I didn’t know what to expect, or what or how this is even possible and why go from a female to a male and back to a female. It even sounds out the normal just saying it to myself. But after watching the video I came to a better understanding about the situation. The first thing that I noticed in the video is that they mentioned his mother committed suicide, and I believe even though his father wanted him to do modeling and all the things that a young woman should do was too much pressure and that he might have been missing the mother role in his life and was adapting more so of the father, and could have lead up to wanting to become a man. Also they explained why he wanted to have the child himself, he and his wife didn’t want that burden on a stranger and the main reason was because they both wanted a child of their own but she couldn’t have children. I myself am a person who never judges anyone so this made more since once this main fact was brought to my attention, if they are in love and want to have a child and bring the child up in a positive environment with love and care, more power to them! I am not saying that everyone would except it and that the child may have problems when out in society from those that are not as excepting as others, but they really shouldn’t worry about it because it’s not as if the family isn’t causing any harm to anyone but wanting to live as a ordinary family, but the reality of it as he mentioned is that a lot of people are crazy and want to harm them. I have come to learn people are afraid of things that are different or the unknown. I myself don’t have the time to wonder about another person and their business because of my own life and problems along with my daily routines. The community and their neighbors gave them support leading up to them having their child which was something that they didn’t have to do but showed much class and maturity they have and the kind of upbringing that they were taught, and probably came to the realization of the situation. Meaning that they are not any different from them but just want to play the role in society just as any other normal family just as we all do. Everyone may agree or disagree on this type of topic men may not care a little bit less then woman, woman may not be able to bare children in the same situation as his wife and may feel as it is not as fare. But after taking in all the facts and details I can see why took this direction, and as long as they are not producing creatures that want to harm us, I think they should have as many as they please without the input of those that just see something as strange or not normal in societies eyes. Just me 012
Good video! First, I don’t know what year the interview was made, but the interviewer calls it ‘disturbing’. I do not understand because I would not go to far calling it ‘disturbing’. Like its 2018 already! Stuff goes down. Also, Mr. Mum states, “you’re not born a man but become a man…however, born biological male”. You are either born male or female after coming out of the womb. However, sad to hear his mother died. I can defiantly feel for him why he was uncomfortable doing the modeling because his father pushed him into it. I feel like anyone should do what they feel is good for them. The pictures though, what a difference from now to before. He felt he was not beautiful at all as a female, kind of shocking. Also, I think I heard him say that they bought sperm online. If that’s correct, than I never had such idea you can do that. I think the moral of the whole story is that both couples are happy and not what other people think. For them, it all works out because the wife could not have kids anyway, so he Mr. Mum did. Surely you can adopt kids? But some people want a kid just like themselves, so they did whatever was possible for them to have kids. As for other people, they might not like the idea. But, who are they to say such thing? If we were in his shoes, we can view the world differently and think differently. Others do not see that, or it may just take some time to process. But, at the end of the day, it should not be something new because there is always something crazy going to pop up in the media. I wish them both the best and everything goes well for them. I don’t have no issues with it, does not bother me. I don’t have time to judge others, but is crazy what science can do. Just as were learning in social ology class, society is always moving forward. In the clip states, “the baby is an abomination”. Just like I said, the media and people escalate the situation than it already is. You cannot blame the baby! It’s not the baby’s fault for coming into the world, matter in fact, nobody is at fault. It’s just that media and people, they have no room to talk. People think that Mr.Mum is insane, crazy, weird, but the people and the media are the ones who are weird, crazy, and insane are those who say those things. It does not matter what other people say because what they say does not say anything about you, but says more about them. So, people just need to stay in their business and maybe they can try to be in his shoes for once and see how it feels. People need to act more respectful and of course everybody has their own thought sand opinions. So respects for Mr. Mum for being so laid-back and not carrying what other say. - LILPUMP012
First I want to start off with how I really had a different input about this man and female until I watched this video. Before this video I thought about it as He/She did it because the wife was unable to get pregnant, which i thought it was nice because the husband had no limits to give the wife what she wanted. But, why not adopt or hire a surrogate I just did not understand there train and thought and why they picked the route they did. But hey they did what they wanted as a couple but hid from the world and is so unhappy with how the world is acting. The video: Starting off I was very interested with what he had to say but later it started to anger me. The man was a girl for real in her younger years modeled and had boyfriends but always felt male? But uses the word he never felt beautiful. After having a girlfriend that did not care about gender she wanted to become a man. Started taking testosterone and removed her breasts but decided to keep her vagina and reproductive organs. When asked how the couple considered themselves they replied a male and female couple which was interesting because he stopped taking his medication in this video and was pregnant once again. He considers himself as the dad even though he used HIS eggs and said he will never feel like a mother but carried their kid for nine months and delivered vaginally. He had to get pregnant like any other woman with sperm being inserted. What is stated next is that you are not born a man we become men. But that makes it sound like we choose what we are growing up when in reality we are born the way we are, children know as soon as playing on the playground if they will like girls or boys or feel different. The way they go about this is why I feel the world is so angry you want to be both genders and argue this to the media that you are male but carrying a baby is what the mother does? That is something that was only given to the mother your trying to be both and I feel like it was only given to the female for a reason. The world around us is changing and this will not be the last story because in reality we can freely do what we want with our bodies, but I feel like this couple was not ready to see how the world was gone act. The babies could have problems later on due to the medicine he was taking before these babies and he will not ever think of it like this. These kids will have to know the truth growing up being only similar to your dad but not your mom. It is just so sad because these kids will have a lot of challenges in life they did not think about. Campbell012
While you provide some interesting points that did cross my mind when first hearing this story. I think when Thomas was Tracy in his earlier years he simply tried to act like a girl to please his father and the societal norms that we have in place. When he finally began the transition by taking testosterone and removing his breasts he was trying to look like a man to society, so that society would begin to identify him as a man. It takes time and a lot of money to have the entire gender confirmation surgery completed, so that is not simply a problem that could be taken care of in one day. As I learned after giving birth to a total of three children, he had his genitals surgically altered to align with his male identity, and he is back on testosterone. As far as the idea of him seeing himself as a father even though he carried out what we know as the maternal role of getting pregnant and caring the baby for nine months, I try to turn the tables to understand his thought process. Just because a woman does not get pregnant weather she is able to or not, does not make her any less of a mother of a child. Even though this is a very sensitive and confusing topic, I am just trying to be open and maybe try to understand others’ ways of life. Again, I think it goes back to how people define their role in society, whether it matches the norms exactly or not. MySliceofthePi012
This video definitely clarifies some aspects of the discussion we had in class. We should have had more context when discussing this, considering the suicide of a parent and inability for a couple to bear children are both extremely traumatizing and psychologically altering events. Growing up without a mother leaves a void in the development of someone, especially a girl, who does not have a prominent feminine figure to imitate and learn from. A wife being sterile can cause immense strain on a relationship, as she may start to feel inadequate, which leads to even worse effects on her psych, and they both may feel hopeless about their wishes to start a family. Both of those reasons make it much easier for me to have no qualms with Mr. Mum’s choice to have a sex change. Just due to the fact that this practice is relatively new in society, I have a hard time understanding it. Of course, that is coming from the perspective of a young, heterosexual white male. Fear of the unknown is the basis for nearly every major societal issue, and transgenders are no exception. In fact, the majority of people who are transgender could not be discriminated between other “normal” members of their gender. What really irks me is when someone reveals that they are a transgender, and their acquaintance acts like they are a completely new person. I just cannot understand why we can’t accept people for who they are personally, as opposed to societally. The fact that Mr. Mum bore a child so that his family could begin is admirable, to me at least. While it is definitely considered deviant behavior, simply because it is a major break in our societal norms -- a male bearing and birthing a child, it is by no means wrong. I am not a religious person, so that mindset does not play a part in my opinion. I can imagine, however, that most devout religious folk see a major problem with this scenario, and that is fine. Mr. Mum’s decision has no effect on me, so I have zero problems with it. Another perspective that I can see people viewing this situation from, however, is a publicity stunt. Everyone wants to be the first to do something, and while Mr. Mum may not be the first pregnant male, he is definitely one of the most publicized. Like they say, any publicity is good publicity, so Mr. Mum is probably benefiting economically from his pregnancy. While I hope this was not his main purpose in pursuing pregnancy, I do think it may have been partial motivation. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, gaining financial security for your child and family simply by having the child is pretty neat. Hopefully, through all of his talk show visits and publicity, Mr. Mum raises awareness and eventually acceptance for all types of people, transgender, homosexual, you name it. -CSP012
I think you have some great points here. I totally agree with you regarding your point about the great void it most defiantly left in the childhood of Thomas when his mother passed away after committing suicide. Coming from a female perspective here I can totally vouch for the fact that something as traumatic and devastating would have certainly left me in a depressed and struggling position. I can’t help but wonder if that had very profound affect on the decision that ultimately led to her becoming Thomas Beatie. I also agree with you about the respect and disrespect we give towards people that are transgender. Although I am a devout Christian in my faith I do believe that no matter what a person has done or become we must always love them as the beautiful human being that they are. -THEARSONIST012
You raise some valid point in your argument but I must stand firm in my belief that the transgenderism movement and the choice made is one I do not personally agree with. I am not trying to sound like a jerk and I will be the first to tell you that I do not know everything. I still believe that the choice was a bit wrong in my eyes. Perhaps I was raised that way, perhaps I adopted my stance as I grew up. Regardless, I do not feel as if the choice was right. I am happy that they are happy but at what costs. The child and the family may have been accepted by neighbors but the child, I fear, will suffer backlash from having transgender parents as well as the family as a whole facing hardships as the road progresses. I wish nothing but the best for them as all people deserve happiness, especially in the US as it is in our constitution. That being said, I still, personally, disagree with the choices made. –TheMarshall012
I totally agree with the point you made about how the fear of the unknown influences society. There are so many situations that people are uncomfortable with solely because they are unfamiliar. While this phenomenon makes sense, because humans are creatures of habit, it is totally unfair that people behave that way. There are in fact some things that we should approach with caution because they can be dangerous or a slippery slope, but, we shouldn’t as humans let our discomfort dictate how we treat people or view the world. Our state of being uncomfortable should only reflect us, and shouldn’t be the basis by which we form our worldview: that is how we get segregation.
This video and the story is shares is truly fascinating. As I sit down to write this I am honestly a little overwhelmed with where I should begin.
Many of us may look at this and marvel at this new and quite outstanding fact that a human being that our culture perceives as “male” is in fact able to carry a child within their body. I will admit that when first reading over this story and glancing at the picture my brain was confused. The question of how kept circulating in my brain. How could a man become pregnant? I believe that God created humans and therefore that He created us male and female. If you don’t have a Christian belief system, or if you have different views or thoughts on the subject of creation and who we are made to be, you are completely entitled to your own opinion and I will respect that wholeheartedly. However, from the way of life I have chosen to follow as a Christian I believe that there is right and wrong in this world. Because of my faith I believe that this as a whole is truthfully wrong. I respect this man, Thomas Beatie because he is with every right a human being and I don’t have any hate or dislike toward him in the least. I simply do not support the choice that he made regarding changing his gender. I can chose to love a human without supporting simple choices they have made and this is an example of that. Although Thomas Beatie is recognized by our American society as truly a male human being; he still possess the internal organs of a female. When looking up the definition of a male in the dictionary I found that it is described as “a human, plant, or animal that gives of it’s bodily self to a female of it’s kind to create new life.” In the case of a plant, that giving might be of pollen or some kind of plant life to create new and beautiful plants. However in the case of humans there is the giving of sperm from a male human being to the female. This contradicts how we can view Thomas if he is unable to give of his own sperm to create new life. I think it is truly fascinating to simply look at this situation from a worldly perspective outside of any religion or belief system. Therefore, I wonder if the description of what a male is in our wold will change? Will this deviance on Thomas’ part begin the change of how we view male and female in our world? I think this is also an example of how the science and technology in our wold are so rapidly changing that we are not truly able to process and accept it at the rate that it is becoming a reality. I think there are so many different parts of this story that we can talk about an explore. However I do think that it is important that we talk about and discuss the changes in our world.
I usually agree with a lot of comments on these discussion boards, but this one I do not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and there probably is no true right or wrong in deciding who's beliefs are better. But, i will say this. It is 2018. Living so close minded and only seeing the world from a religious point of view is not smart. The world is changing and people are allowed to be who they were born to be more so than ever before. You don't have to understand it, but I don't understand you and yet here we are coexisting with one another. I am a religious person also but I think people can be whoever and live as freely as they want, as long as they aren't hurting others in the process. Sure, biologically they are born one way but that isn't who they are internally. Everyone should be able to express themselves the way they want to and love the way they want to.
First I would like to start by saying everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If this man wanted to have a baby by all means that's his decision he can do as he please. I think everyone is so caught up in what's 'normal' and what's not. I honestly feel like if we didn't have set expectations in society everything would be fine and everybody wouldn't be so judgmental. This video was so interesting to me. When we first discussed Thomas in class I didn't have anything to say about him. The whole process of him giving birth threw me off. That was the only thing I had to say because I've learned you should learn ones background before judging them. I'm glad I didn't because his story is interesting. The fact he was born a woman but was psychologically identified as a man is something I never heard of in my life. You can't judge what he did after learning these things. In the video they explained how in order to get pregnant Thomas had to stop taking his male hormones. That was fascinating to me just to think he can switch from being a man back to a woman seems so unreal. As far as their opinion on abortion and a surrogate, that's their choice. If this is their piece of happiness they deserve to be happy. I'm not used to hearing 'you got your husband pregnant' nor seeing a man with a baby bump. But that's different, and normal is boring. After getting to know their story and learning the reason behind why Thomas did what he did it made it easier for me to understand and I actually do not look at them any different than a average family. In fact, their an extraordinary family if you ask me. You have to learn not to judge others on their decisions. As long as his wife is ok with it other peoples opinion on this man does not matter. I thought it was crazy when he mentioned he received death threats over this. It's ridiculous to me that goes to show ignorant and bothered people are it's honestly sad. This is why society cannot function as a whole. Everybody has different outlooks on things which is fine but where we fail to come together is understanding one another.I believe if we can't even do that than at least mind your own business when it comes to norm 'violations'. Basically, if you're not going to put your opinions and outlook to the side to get to know the other persons reasoning behind something at least keep the negative comments to yourself. Overall I really enjoyed the video, I learned some new things, that I actually want to learn about in biology. Very fascinating and interesting. -JEWELS012
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone has the right to make their own decisions. Me personally I do not agree with what this now man did. I don’t agree with it because God made man and women for a reason and he created every single person the way he wanted them to be. God made no mistakes so why change the beautiful creation he made which is you. Yes you may not like the way you look on the outside but that doesn’t mean you should change it like this. I think that the man didn’t really make sense in the interview because he was talking about how you should feel less manly or more feminine because of something but yet he change his body so that he could become a man. If he truly feel that way then why not stay the same. He changed himself because he didn’t feel like he was who he truly wanted to be which was a man. So technically he wanted to feel more manly than feminine. Now don’t get me wrong I’m don’t agree in what he did but I also don’t agree with how other people responded to him and his wife about the situation they were saying how he should die and we’re wishing bad things on the baby. They child did nothing wrong it was brought into the world without their dong so I don’t feel that wishing bad things in a child was the right thing to do I think it was an awful thing to do. Another thing that I was uneasy about was the fact that he still had the private part of a women even though everything else turned into make parts and appearances i think he could just had one either masculine if you want to be a man or female of you want to be a women. I understand the reason why he did this was because he wife couldn’t get pregnant. Though they ended up still having a sperm donor which crazy Cuz they technically still ended up having a staffers baby’s it’s just the stranger wasn’t carrying the baby the man was. Granted I do say that they are a modern family in a sense that modern families have evolved overtime. It’s not just man,women as child it can be man,man and child or women, women and child that’s what’s modern day families look like nowadays because society has been a little more accepting. I’m all I do not agree with the decision the man made but it in no way affects me and I’m not going to give his family hate because of it nor am I going to ponder on it and be mad about it. It’s his decision and his life he is a now grown man who can do what he wants though that doesn’t mean that I support it because I believe and know that God made us made us exactly how he wanted us to be and who he wanted us to be . -IDK123012
I agree that everybody is entitled their own opinions. I love your response as a whole because I don't agree with this at all and I do feel like god mad man for women and women for men. I do believe god made you how you are and surgery should not change their appearance. Then they have a baby so now the baby is going to be confused and the baby will get bullied due to the fact of Mr.Mum. Kids are mean and I don't think they thought about how their decision could hurt their baby in the long run. ~jolly rancher
I understand what you're saying about God making man and woman for a reason but that's something he needs to worry about. If he chose to mess with how God made him that's something only he should be worried about. Yes at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own opinion but everybody can't be defined as what society calls "normal" and this is why I feel society will never come come together as a whole because we can't put our opinion on something aside to feel or understand where someone else is coming from. -JEWELS012
Several years ago, when I first heard about this story, I was greatly confused and did not think it was right. Society greatly influenced my views of the world, so I was not able to see past the constructed reality that a majority of people have to come accept and live by. I grew up thinking that a family was like the nuclear family we discussed in class with a mother, a father, and two or three kids. Even though my parents are divorced, and I only lived with my mother, I still saw myself part of a “normal” family with a mother and a father. What made my family slightly different was that it was just divided. As the topic of family has made headlines again and again in the news, I began to see that a family does not have to follow the very strict set of guidelines that I imagined. I began to accept that families came in many different shapes and sizes, made up of many types of individuals. I was introduced to the idea of transgender people when the TLC show “I am Jazz” premiered. At first, I did not think that it was right for someone who was born as a male or female to change who they were to become someone of the opposite gender. However, after watching several episodes and learning more about this idea, I am beginning to understand and accept it more. How I have come to see it as follows: When transgender people are born they do not feel comfortable in their own skin or body. They simply cannot stand the feeling of having to go through life with the sex they were assigned at birth. Until I learned this I could not fully understand this idea. Being born a female, myself, I feel comfortable and confident with the type of person I am. I am happy to be a female and to know I can look forward to all of the roles that come with being a female in our society. However, when I try to look at life through a transgender person’s eyes I have to ask myself, “What if I wasn’t happy to be a female?” When I ask myself this question I can see why some people are transgender. If I was not happy being a female it would make my life very challenging, miserable, and even hopeless. With Thomas Beatie’s story I understood his want to transition to a male, but what made it difficult for me to fully understand his story is that he was willing to get pregnant. Initially, I did not fully understand Beatie’s want to get pregnant if he was not comfortable as a woman, but then I learned that his wife was not able to have children, so this made a bit more sense to me. I asked myself why would he willing want to get pregnant if there are other options that exist to have a child. I was able to hypothesize that maybe the couple did not want to have a surrogate because that is a rather expensive process when Beatie was capable of getting pregnant and giving birth. Something that really shocked and surprised me is that Beatie said that he did not feel and maternal connection during his pregnancy. Also his wife, Nancy, started lactating as Thomas’ body changed. Thomas Beatie considers to be the father of his children, even though his eggs were used. I believe this story comes to show us that society more than biology greatly influences our lives. We are bound by society and as Thomas Beatie said, “mother and father are social terms.” In most cases, we gravitate toward and used social terms to define our lives and who we are. Even though I may not agree with everything, I now try to understand the world using a more sociological perspective. MySliceofthePi012
I Really liked how you ended your paragraph, I feel the same way you do. Only difference is that I still believe that Thomas is still a woman. I really didn’t understand how she could be lactating if her body didn’t physically go through the change he did. It was really interesting that you brought up the fact that we side with society more than biology, and that we allow society to change us more than biology. I feel like that is true, but is it right? I feel like things were made a certain way for a reason and serves a specific purpose who are we to change the biology of something and say, this is how it should be. Honestly, I’m a little conflicted. -Jaci7429
I really enjoyed your paragraph and your path of understanding transgender. I think you were very accepting even if you don't agree with all of it which is great! I wish I would of mentioned "I am Jazz" in my post because that was how I became accepting of this concept. I really like your ending and how u said that a nuclear family is just a societal term. There is no right or wrong to family. Some people live in households where they aren't related at all but they still call each other family. Having a husband and a wife and kids is just the stereotypical term of family, that point it more the framework of the American Dream for me. In reality America is full of so many different people and I think it is very important to be accepting of our differences because we are all not the same and that is what living here is all about. American is called the melting pot for a reason and a reason that isn't just cultures.-curlyhead012
The transgender movement is, personally, a tad distasteful for me. I am not trying to sound like a jerk, but I just feel as if the entire transgender movement is wrong. I will probably catch some flak for this but I just do not agree with it at all really. “For all of human history boy meant boy and girl meant girl.” These word are a quote from Ben Shapiro. The thought that a person can change their gender based on a feeling is something I do not agree with at all. It is important that the differences between male and female are recognized and respected. The blur the line between male and females count be potentially catastrophic for cultures around the world. The gender of a person is, in my opinion and scientifically proven to be biological in nature. If a person has XX chromosomes, she is a woman. If a person has XY chromosomes, he is a male. I am fully aware if genetic mutations like a person being born with both male and female genitalia and I recognize these people, however, that is what it is. A mutation that is usually rare. One should not be able to choose base on the feeling, back in the day, this problem used to be called gender identity disorder and now is considered gender dysphoria. The biggest part that I feel strongly about is the fact that it affects the population directly. It is beginning to make its way into politics and is being pushed on other people. It is even going as far as too start to redefine our term of male and female. Both of which have scientific and biological backing as to the difference. Ben Shapiro did a go job in explaining my stance of transgenderism. He took and redefined the terms and asked if you think you are a cat, are you suddenly a cat or something of that sort. He also did it with age in asking a student who disagreed why she could not identify as a 60 year old. He finished with saying something along the lines of, you cannot magically change your age, and you cannot magically your gender. His saying essentially says that you are born the way you are and it is who you are. You should not be able to change it based on a thought. I personally see no benefit of transgenderism and while I believe a person should be happy, I do not think that it should be at the cost of an entire culture’s defined definition of male and female. I especially do not agree with it changing the US with now having to put it on official forms. This could potentially mess with a lot of government statistic and could even hinder medical treatment for the person a hand. It could even work as a tool for those sick individuals that prey on both men and women. A predator could easily say that he is a woman or a man today and now has unlimited access to that genders usually restricted area. In all, I personally do not agree with the movement at all and this video is no exception as I found no valid reason for it personally. –TheMarshall012
Omg, you have just summed up how I really feel! I stated in my paragraph that although Thomas identifies as a man he is essentially still a woman. He was born a woman and that no matter how much surgery and hormonal pills he takes can change that. I especially liked your point about how people can just use the term transgender as an excuse to their sick fantasies and behaviors. I would have to agree with everything you just said, it’s not right and it shouldn’t have been able to get this far. Biologically he is still a she, nothing will change that. -Jaci7429
Im right with you on this one. i also do believe that it is wrong because god has made you a certain way and we all are boys and girls for a reason. i also agree that you shouldn't be able to change just because of a thought or feeling. we also do see the huge impact it has on our society and i think that it is kind of bogus that we are almost forced to accept these problems even if we dont think its right. overall i agree with you statement and it was well thought out! -ILIKETURTLES012
This video was really interesting and I learned some things I did not know. Personally, I thought this all was wrong. I believe that all of it goes against human nature. However, I think that it definitely think it all has a huge impact on society. We saw in the video how must attention the whole situation. Back then that is not something you would see every day and the transgender community had not evolved yet. I also think this almost goes against our societal norms. most of our community would have thought that was wrong a few years back but I think that the acceptance of the whole situation is more popular today then usual. I also think that this is going to have a huge impact on the child as she gets older. Going into school she a high possibility of being bullied. Two things that really frustrated me was when she was explaining her whole reproductive system. Society takes stepping stones into any major change in culture, and at the point in time when this story came to light it was way too big of a step for the transgender movement, and maybe still is. Today, even after acceptance groups, countless protests, and even law reforms, there any many people who are completely opposed to the idea of being able to truly change one’s sexual orientation from the norm. Due to the fact that this video surfaced so long ago most likely explains why the couple felt so threatened and overwhelmed by negative reactions. I do think that there are people that do not think this is right but however, that doesn’t mean that we can be bothered by it. For example, I do not think it all is right but that doesn’t mean that I can’t accept that’s other people’s choices that they want to make. If it isn’t affecting me I’m fine with however you chose to live your life. I thought it was interesting how the processed worked. I thought that they could have made a better choice with purchasing the donor sperm. They could have gone through the actual doctors instead of ordering. I also thought it was interesting how the wife was producing milk. I know that there is medication that she probably took in order to go through it but in my mind, that is also very wrong. We also saw that Barbra Walters reaction was clearly a conservative opinion because of her reaction. She never once even said congratulations when Mr. Mum said that he was expecting another baby. This clearly portrayed the reaction of most of society at that time. Even Mr. Mum was shocked by seeing himself in the mirror because he never thought that he would have a baby as identifying as a man his whole life. Today it has also caught politician’s eyes because there were law in places prohibiting LGBTQ. So, overall situations like these have a huge impact on society today. -ILIKETURTLES012
For starters, I have nothing against gay people I’m a lil gay myself and my sister gay. With that being said me personally I don't think its right nor fair for a transgender person to have a baby. I feel like if she was going to want a baby she should have stayed a woman instead f being 2 genders at one time. Its like he trying to have his cake and eat it to type of thing. Then on top of that I feel like it would have been different if she was just dressing as a boy with girl parts but she got rid of her titles so its like what are you doing why are you doing this. Like if I knew her I would be like why are you trying to have a baby and you want to be a boy. Its a difference between just liking boy clothes and knowing and accepting you are. Girl but getting surgery mean you want to be labeled the other sex and now you want to use different pronouns. Thats how I feel before hand watching the video now I am going to watch the video and elaborate on what I said prior to the video or I may change how I feel. That is so funny they called her a Mr.mu, that really made me laugh to the core. The start of this video caught me by surprise even though the situation is out of the norm I feel like people should give them privacy like come on now they are still humans. For them to say they look like a traditional family I feel like they should address the fact that they are different from the normal traditional family but in their eyes they feel like a traditional family. The traditional family like thy said is male and female, in their case they are female and female and even though that can be a traditional family they should say it like it is. I kind of think this whole male pregnancy thing was for attention, considering the fact he took that pregnancy picture he knew what people would say. I feel like if his wife could not have kids he should of went about it a different way. Then he said he didn't want a stranger to carry his baby but I can understand in a way but I don't agree. I feel like it was not that serious to inject the sperm in him how he did just to have a baby. I feel like he should of had someone else carry the baby. At the end of the day it do not really matter how I feel about the situation because it is not me. I know I be doing a lot of stuff other people do not likes it is just like it is what it is. If they happy I feel like the is all that matter, because if people keep bothering them they gone get depressed. What ever make them happy should make everybody happy because it is their life and not ours. ~Jolly ranchers
I enjoyed this video. It was definitely different and one of the first ones shown in class that i was genuinely interested in. I would like to start out by mentioning something the subject, Thomas stated during the video that I found compelling. He said, he believed that the mother and father "role" is a role that has been constructed by society. I believe this is true. In our ever-changing and ever-expanding world, we're starting to be introduced to concepts that we are not used to. We are forced to become familiar with the unfamiliar. Which, personally, I think is a good thing for our society as a whole. In our culture, we believe the father is the one who physically doesn't contribute much to the actual child birthing process, since he cannot carry a child or birth it, and he is more so there to give unconditional love and support to mother and baby throughout the rest of their lives. But, Thomas and his family challenges this idea. Born a woman and transitioned into a man, he informs us of one interesting fact that I struggled to understand prior to watching this video. He clearly states that he never felt like the child's mother, even during pregnancy. I think that, for me, without any background knowledge, was the toughest pill for me to swallow. We naturally assume that because he had the baby, he identifies as a woman and considers himself the true mother. Which allows our brains to spin off into a million different directions and think things like will his children grow up confused or disturbed? And how far did they think this through? But, delving into this much deeper, which this documentary so wonderfully allows, tells us this: Thomas and his family's intentions were carefully and meticulously planned and thought through. And, today and for the rest of their lives, they are willing to do whatever it takes to keep their children safe. I see the situation like this: A husband doing whatever is necessary to ensure that his wife is happy. Isn't that a societal idea that we worship and praise? It is. It just so happens that in this case, the husband and wife have very unique circumstances, which a lot of people haven't yet come to accept. We know that Thomas identifies as a man. We know that Thomas' wife could not have children. If Thomas could do something to physically help his infertile wife, why wouldn't he? It would be crazy of him not to, and society just needs to get on board with that. The couple just wanted a family like everyone else. After viewing this video and trying to understand it, I feel like I became a little more open minded. I wouldn't consider myself an ignorant person, but there is a lot I do not know, and I'm sure that goes for a lot of other people. So. I appreciate being given this topic as subject matter because a lot goes on outside of the comfort of our own lives. This is definitely a prime example of cultural lag, which Prof. White talked about in class. I am a firm believer in science and medicine, and if it is advanced enough to allow miracles like this to happen, society needs to catch up and accept it. I think as a society we need to do much better. Transphobia needs to be something that is a rarity and we should become more understanding as a nation. Situations like this are only beginning to surface but it doesn't mean they are going to go away. We need to be better at handling this and accepting it and not even thinking twice when a trans-gendered couple says they want to start a family. I don't believe what Thomas and his wife have done is wrong. Who am I to even say or think that it is? We're all people at the end of the day, and just because something is different doesn't mean it is wrong.
In recent years this topic has had a major resurgence of relevance in our collective culture with a large movement once again in the LGBTQ+ community. Before I speak on this specific case and the significance in my mind to modern day that it has I would like to first point out that transgenderism has existed in many cultures since the earliest reaches of human civilization. We have records of transgender people in Greece in the time of the city-states. Many different cases including one of the first successful gender reassignment surgery in Denmark. Even in America during the 20s and then again in the 50s the concept was popular. So popular that in the 1950s it become the subject of many exploitation films of the era about men dressing as women and being hermaphrodites. It lost some relevance after the 70s with the resurgence of the nuclear family and of “wholesome” ideals, mostly Christian in theme in America. The 80s did see a big movement for gay men in America with the gay community as a whole being elevated slightly, but all of this brings us back to present day in the last 10 years or so. The LGBTQ+ community has had a rough road leading up to here, but now the marriage of same sex couples is completely legal in all 50 states and they can begin to live lives without fear of persecution, but if this is true...then why is the mere mention of a concept like this, a man giving birth, make the classroom go quiet with nothing butter murmurs. After being egged on we begin to see that many people start sentences with things like “I have no problem with” or “you can do whatever you want” though it seems there is always a ‘but’ at the end. We still find ourselves uncomfortable with this idea in our world for the most part. Thomas Beatie, the man from the video, after coming forward about his pregnancy had to go into hiding for some time due to how uncomfortable the outside attention was making them feel. They received a lot of support, but an equal amount of hate mail. We live in a society where it seems we all agree that progress is good and that we are fighting for s better end goal yet we do not seem to be able to get over these simple hurdles in our mind. That is why a subject like this is fascinating in a sociological perspective, because we see so many agents of socialization at work when people speak about and react to the topic. MAny people in our class wouldn’t outright defy the wishes of Thomas, because our modern ideas vilify someone who puts someone down in that way, yet the traditional view of the world creeps through as see many people tongue tied as they can not quite articulate why it seems wrong to them but they know it does. If you need any greater proof that we are not yet done with positive cultural change it is with things such as this. -twentyfourframes012
I like how you mentioned the dates LGBT dates back to. Most people think it is only a this generation thing. The only reason it seems that way is because now a days things are more open and certain situations are becoming more acceptable. As you mentioned incidents of any form of LGBT have been happen for a long time. Back then you just could not be very open about it. I love how you mention everyones "but" at the end. Most believe people have the right to think or feel a certain way BUT this about it is not right. For me I think Beatie has the right to identify as a man but bringing a child and their life into it is my BUT. So it is true most people are only half way for certain situations as such. gea012
When we first mentioned this in class, everyone including myself were just about against the idea of a transgender man having a baby. I Personally am still against, well not necessarily against but just not with the idea of a man becoming a woman or woman becoming a man. Before watching this video, I was strong in my opinion that what he was doing was not right. After watching the video, I looked at it in a very different perspective. Before I looked at the topic in a black and white perspective. A person born a woman, then deciding to become male and later becoming pregnant was just so backwards to me. It still is, and before watching the video I had many different viewpoints on why he shouldn’t have a baby. One was that, if your wanting to become male and you physically transform your body to do so, then you should not have the mentality that you are wanting to hold a baby for nine months. Secondly, he is married to a naturally born woman, so why not have her carry the child. Third, he shouldn’t be able to experience both sides, he just should not have the luxury to be able to experience pregnancy. Pregnancy is a luxury, it’s a blessing, it’s for woman and woman only. (Not bringing God in to the equation) But if this is how things were supposed to be then it was just be man, and not man and woman. There is a reason why woman was created, and a reason why man was created. We both serve a purpose, a different purpose in life. After watching the video, I still had these same perspectives on why he shouldn’t be able to experience pregnancy. Although, he still is a woman. No matter how we look at it, he was still born a woman. He still has a woman’s sexual reproductive system, no surgery or hormonal pills can change that. That’s when I came to the conclusion that what he is doing isn’t so bad. He is really a she, he just looks like a man. It’s all about or perspective and how we view things. Because he looks like a man and we see him pregnant doesn’t necessarily mean he is a man. He just identifies as one, but he is really still a woman. Now something I still did not quite understand is why his wife had a hysterectomy. This is still a question to me, because most women who get this procedure gets it because they are sure they do not want any more children ever. Unless for health reasons, which was not stated in the video I feel as if this was a backwards decision. I know in the video they said that adoption and surrogate was not an option but why not? That child will still be yours no matter what, a document doesn’t change that. I just felt personally in my very own opinion that there were many other options than this one. Although, I feel that way like I said he is still a she no matter how we put it, he just identifies differently. -Jaci7429
This video was really interesting and I learned some things I did not know. Personally, I thought this went against a lot of what I believe. It goes against human nature in my personal opinion. However, I think that it definitely think it all has a huge impact on society.
The video really clarified the discussion we had in class on Mr. Mum. I found it interesting and kinda disturbing. What Mr. Mum went through like the suicide of his mom and his inability for a couple to bear children are both extremely traumatizing and psychologically altering events. Growing up without a mother left Thomas with a empty void in the development of someone, especially a girl, who does not have a prominent feminine figure to imitate and learn from. In my opinion, I feel for Thomas. It is his choice to do what makes him happy. But if Thomas was born a woman then she's a woman. I don’t really agree with how she is trying to juggle both genders. She is either one or the other. Thomas using the mens restroom really didn’t sit well with me. If your a female, you use the women's restroom. Some people wouldn’t take to kindly for a man to go into a womens room. That is just setting things up for a disaster. This could potentially mess with a lot of government statistic and could even hinder medical treatment for the person. It would be a sick tool for those sick individuals that prey on both men and women. A predator could easily say that he is a woman or a man today and now has unlimited access to that genders. Who knows what would happen. In all, I feel mixed about the whole story. I’m glad he/she has a healthy baby girl, but the path getting there I don’t entirely agree with. The other thing that I was surprised about is that at the end of the interview he announced he was pregnant again. This, to me, caused Barba Walter to look just as dumbfounded as I was. He was going through the process of getting pregnant his way all over again. -CUBSFAN012
When this topic was touched on in class, I feel like it was obvious that nobody felt overly comfortable with discussing it. Personally, I would not have made this decision and i cannot say that I have ever felt the way that Thomas Beatie has felt. I feel that I was born a female and after continuing my life 19 years later, I still identify as a female. I have never experienced a time in my life where I felt like I was being someone I wasn’t or where I felt I should identify as the opposite sex from what I am. However, I can’t speak for everyone else. Thomas mentioned in the beginning how he was forced to participate in feminine events to satisfy his father. Maybe something that occured in his earlier life triggered these feelings or maybe he has just felt like this is entire life. After starting sociology, I feel like my mind has expanded beyond a two sided coin view. WIth that being said, I really am just at a point in my life where I just want to understand why it matters to everyone else what one individual decides to do. American society needs to get real and understand that our country is founded and based off of the practices of freedom. How can you tell people that they are FREE but then ridicule the choices that they have made in their lives? To be honest this is why there are so many issues in the world today. America is so big that as a society we said “forget the unity, lets try to understand the world in categories”.We have tricked ourselves into thinking that the BEST and ONLY way to clearly view the world is by dividing everyone up into groups that they fit in best based on how they look, things they do, things they like, or even how they think. Scratch the labels and see everyone for who they TRULY are and that’s HUMAN. Pink isn’t a girl color, there is nothing wrong with being attracted to your sam sex and there is nothing wrong with someone taking action is their lives to increase their own quality of life. Thomas and his wife's baby was born with no complications and as far as I know and have heard, no harm was done to either the baby or his father so who are we to say that is weird and who are we to frown upon them for making a decision that they felt was best for them. Society has issues with minding their own business. I strongly feel that if you aren't willing to open your mind up to different cultures and views on the world then you have no right to add your two cents in just because you want to. I think that Thomas made the decision that he felt would be beneficial to him and his wife. It is not just for me to say that he should not have carried a child if he transformed into a male. In this situation I feel the actions are justified and even if he wanted to have a baby “just because”, we as a society should respect it and move on. To sum it up, the world would be an easier place to live and be happy in if individuals would stop trying to see the world in black and white. Humans are too complex and there are way too many variable to take into consideration to even attempt to tell others what is right or wrong for them. LayBae012
I always saw this all over the tabloids when I was younger but never understood how it was possible. I remember when I first saw it I was confused but I didn’t think it was wrong. Today, I am a lot older and a lot more mature, but I still don’t think it is wrong. I agree with Beatie when he says that he was born a boy in his brain, that makes sense to me. I support this because myself I feel like a girl and always have felt like a girl, I might have my tomboy moments but ultimately, I know that I feel like a girl. I understand it as simple as that for Beatie, he was just less fortunate in his case. He was born a woman but had always felt like a man. It was only less fortunate than me because what he felt was against the “social norm”. I firmly believe you can be whatever you want to be in life and that includes careers, statuses, and gender. I feel like everyone should be happy and I know for a lot of the LGBTQ community that is something they struggle with. I understand why it is so hard for them, but I wish we lived in a country that accepted people for who they are and more specifically who they feel like they are. You should be fully able to express yourself but sadly I know people are not always going to agree with it. This goes for a man having a baby all the way down to if chocolate cake is the best dessert or not, it is all about opinion. People are entitled to their opinion about Thomas Beatie having a baby, but I think it is perfectly fine. People may say that he had the best of both worlds, but he clearly said in the video that he never felt motherly during his pregnancy. Like our professor says it is not wrong its just culture and opinion. I understand why people are confused why he didn’t have the bottom half of gender reassignment surgery, but I think he makes a good point for this. A penis doesn’t make you more of a man in anyway. Sorry to be crude but it is the same fact for guys born men. A guy with a bigger penis isn’t any more of a man than a guy with a smaller one. I think people also need to take in account that he did this because his wife couldn’t have a child. It wasn’t solely his decision to have a baby just because he wanted to, I see it more like the couple’s decision. Beatie was taking testosterone before he got pregnant, so he fully identified as a man the whole pregnancy. The only reason I feel like people see it as strange is because it is against the social norm. Girls wearing pants was against the social norm for a long time but look how times have changed, its normal and acceptable for girls to wear pants now. Overall, I see nothing wrong with Beatie’s life or his decisions because I feel like it was for his happiness and not publicity. -curlyhead012
I would like to say first and foremost that I fully support this persons right to get a sex change operation. I am perfectly alright with this person getting pregnant and having a child. I don't really care what anybody does as long as it doesn't effect me or harm others. I won't say that I think that what these people are doing is wrong or right, but I will defend their right to do it. That is all I really have to say on the matter of this "man" getting pregnant. That said, I do have something to say about transgender-ism and homosexuality that would effect me and other people, and thus I would have a problem with. It is the idea that making people be "accepting" by law would be infringing on my rights. I wouldn't say anything about this, but I have seen several cases in recent years that would infringe on other peoples freedom in the name of acceptance. The first example I would like to bring up is the new Canadian bill that would force a person to use the pronouns that another person identifies as. In my eyes that is a direct violation of the freedom of speech and I have seen several cases of people saying that we should adopt something similar in the US. Next, I would like to say that I think that it is wrong to say that businesses should be required by law to serve anyone for any reason. It is unjust to require a wedding caterer to serve for a homosexual or transgender wedding if they see it as morally wrong. In a capitalistic society like ours, businesses that discriminate against a large portion of the population inevitably can not compete with other companies that don't discriminate. This would eventually leave us with only companies that do not discriminate. I don't think that law should have any hand in these matters. -DMPeschy
I love this response! I agree with you whole-heartedly regarding defending their rights to do as they please. And yes, I don’t think that the government should interfere with such things. People should be free to do as they’d like as long as it’s within their rights and they aren’t harming themselves or others. They should be able to live in a way that they feel comfortable. I think people should learn to be more accepting and open-minded regarding these issues. A lot of people are very condescending and degrading in their comments and ill-intended wishes upon others, as pointed out in the video.
Watching this video, I am doing my best to be objective and not subjective. I think it is wrong that the Beatie family has to live in constant worry of people intruding on their privacy. The social deviance of the family in question is in no way difficult to recognize. Even as I watch the video, I notice that the interviewer does not see Thomas Beatie as a man, and seemed somewhat cynical, asking questions like “does it seem like you’re trying to get it both ways?” This questioning is clearly from a biased standpoint. It is a difficult topic to discuss because people of our society either care too much about the topic when it does not concern them, or they do not care at all and they want to just leave the people be. There are obviously grey areas to that statement, but it is an issue divided in one way basically. I do not think that people should have any sort of say in this matter. If a person who identifies as a male and still has a vagina that properly works, it is an amazing anomaly! It probably happens a lot in the transgender community, but I feel that most of the time the case of this video does not happen. Would Thomas Beatie have gone through with the pregnancy if his spouse could have born children? Who knows. It is not for us to know. I think the way they went about it was actually a very responsible and self sufficient way to have the baby. There would not need to be a surrogate for this situation, and the fact that they made this decision was very good. I think the fact that the Beatie’s were subject to such scrutiny by society is wrong, and the fact that there were people sending this family death threats is disgusting. Let the family live their life, thats what I say. They take great care of the baby obviously, and live happy lives. I do not understand why people feel the need to comment and input on their happiness. This is a question that I wonder about many topics. For example, why do people care that others use drugs or drink alcohol, so long as they are not encroaching upon your right to liberty, who cares. Actually, doing drugs and drinking is actually way more harmful to society as a whole than this Beatie family ever could be, but the fact that this case was so peculiar is why it received so much attention. YoungPlug012
Transgenders are a complicated topic to discuss. Everyone has their personal views, then their objective view. And, as described in class, people have different perspectives and views when approaching these sorts of things. You can view it religiously, socially, culturally, historically, ethically, morally, etc. All vary, and there are no right answers. People are generally accepting of people’s differences, but a great many are not. When it comes to Thomas/Tracy, he felt it was acceptable to become a male. It was what he felt truly in his heart and in his head, and he felt uncomfortable, or not entirely “him”, to be a female (when he was one). Thus, he changed his body to the best of his ability to become a female. I personally feel that from a religious point of view that this is wrong, but if that’s what he feels he wants to do and that’s what makes him happy, then it’s alright. I know a lot of people feel that what he did was unethical and immoral, but I think that, like Thomas pointed out, people are not accustomed or used to the image of a pregnant male. In some other cultures, this could be seen as acceptable, not necessarily supported, but more culturally acceptable. In America, it’s not clearly defined. Because America is based upon the freedoms of its citizens, it doesn’t necessarily have a place to tell someone that what they’re doing within their own rights upon their body is wrong. But, that being said, the people themselves are free to voice their disapproval of such an act. I don’t think I’m in the place to judge people for their decisions on their own body. If he wants to do that and that makes him happy, then so be it. It’s not a decision I would make or feel comfortable with, but I’m a very open-minded and accepting person, so I don’t have any feelings of disgust or such towards people who make these sorts of decisions. To be honest, it’s almost quite the opposite, I think it’s really interesting and fascinating when removing the judgmental aspect of it. The fact that a “man” became pregnant peaked my interest, and I found the video very intriguing. I may not support it, but it was very interesting. I also found his relationship with Nancy very inspiring. I couldn’t help but smile at the end when they told the interviewer that he was pregnant again, her reaction was priceless. But, I also was really happy for the couple. It also shows that regardless of who actually has the baby, it has no effect on the couple’s love for one another, or the actual child herself. Susan was a healthy and happy baby. Even though her father had her, she still has two amazingly loving and caring parents, and that’s all that matters. I also liked that Thomas said that a mother and a father were relative terms. I’d never really thought of that. Anyways, I thought this was really interesting!
this video is weird. my stomach is turning, i am almost speechless. we have freedom of our own speech, so without trying to offend anyone i am going to give my straight up opinion. being transgender is sickening and way beyond gods wishes of us as his children. he created to be born with our lives as they should be. she was born a girl because she was supposed to be a girl and not change her ways. she could have easily been considered a transgender without making the whole gender change, getting rid of her boobs, adding testosterone but keeping eggs. This is what disgusted me the most. Why would you be so concerned to look exactly like a man, want to act like a man, but keep the female reproductive system? that to me should be forbidden. many people who change from a women to a man do this to avoid pregnancy or because they cannot see themselves being a woman, having periods, giving birth, etc. The point of her switching to a man was to erase her past as a women, but why is "he" considered a man if he has female reproductive specimen. pregnancy is a god given blessing, some women get that opportunity taken from them, but this women who changed her self to a man still has that right?? not in my eyes. that is utterly disgusting. (wanderer211)
I read most of the comments and I did like yours. You said it right forward without faking your thoughts and act as who am I to judge. Thank you for this comment. I agree with all what you said, we as a human being should accept the way we are and act as it. And all women should appreciate the amazing gift that God gave, being able to give birth is the most incredible gift that a human being could have. POINTOFVIEW012
I love how you didn’t change your opinion for the sake of offending anyone; being straight forward is hard when we really have to worry about not hurting anyone else’s feelings. As a child of God though I do have to ask you, don’t you think God accepts everyone for who they are? MY God would never discriminate against this man, or against this woman for how he truly feels about himself. Personally I believe that God would stand up and applaud this man if he could. What he did takes extreme bravery and self-confidence. I do agree though that being able to give birth is a blessing and no one should take it for granted; and he didn’t. -isitnaptimeyet012
This video opened my eyes and thoughts about this situation. When we were talking about it in class I thought it was so stupid and dumb for them to do that and that it made no sense at all for a woman to become a man just to end up having a baby. After watching this, I understand and do not judge them based on their decisions in life. Everyone is born with free will and that free will gives them the ability to do what they feel is right as a person. These decisions people make may seem stupid or unordinary to others but it’s not their lives or their choice to make them. As a Christian I do view this as being wrong though but at the same time I can’t judge. God made everyone in their own unique way and if he would want that individual to be a male rather then a female then he would’ve done so. I feel when people make these decisions to change their gender that they are going against what God has planned and that they are only doing what they want in life which in a way right because people have free will but also wrong because he would’ve gave them the gender they wanted if he had thought it was right. This subject is really hard to talk about because you cant really say what is right and what is wrong because we aren’t God and don’t know what he views as acceptable or what is not acceptable. Life is very precious and we live our lives everyday and we should learn to appreciate what we have and what we were given but sometimes we only think about ourselves and what we want. This video has changed my views on trans genders because we never really know the true meaning of why they did it or what the purpose they have for it. We never will know until we are in the footsteps of others which will never happen. People can wake up the next day and just decide they want to be a man rather then a woman just because they feel like it. The world views this as wrong because of social norms and were just so use to men giving the sperm and the women providing the eggs in order to have babies. Thomas had the baby because his wife was no longer able to have children due to a surgery she had a received and they wanted a baby of their own and not through adoption. What they did was viewed as wrong because it was not a social norm and so everyone judged but in reality Thomas and his wife had a good reason for doing what they did. What stood out to me also was that Thomas’s wife started lactating which never happens unless a woman goes through the stages of child development so I feel God gave here this ability so that she could bond with her child the way she wanted to. Mrbubby012
I heard about this story before, but I’ve never had the courage to see this story and follow it on the social media. Not because I don’t care but also that I recognize it as a type of extreme deviance that I absolutely don’t and will not accept it. This is not something about Thomas and Nancy and their decision to have a baby! Thomas who is a woman and still decided to transferee into a man because as he said he is biologically male but, in his mind, and when he wakes up in the morning he feels like a man! And to achieve his mind goal he decided to take testosterone, male hormone, cut his hair short and had her breast remove to make look like a man. And then be in a relationship with a lesbian, and then they decided to have a family and have kids! The beginning of this world was by two people Adam and Eve, Why! Because God created men and women with a different reproductive system and together be able to have babies that generation after generation after generation is becoming the world that we live in with those people. God is not creating creature randomly, but God is having a unique system that no one in this entire world could do the same way he did. The messengers over the time have had a message from God which is to help people believe in God among time with different passengers. So those messages were transferred from one generation to another according to the religion that those specific groups were practicing. And by doing those stuff is saying that we as a human being instead of using our mind to improve the quality of the life, help others, find ways to develop our selves, etc. we use it to change the world in an inappropriate way. We now support the transformation of people into an alliance and not helping our soldiers who are dying in unstable countries because of a politician! We are losing the peaceful world by saying that we don't care as they are happy and not affecting us. which on the other hand is having a direct effect but we don't say it out loud we keep it for our selves and hope that no one in the family does this unacceptable behavior. We always say things we don't believe or accept because it's inappropriate to show your feelings to others. Raising kids who have two fathers or two mothers and now the mother who has a short hair and a mustache marrying other women consider herself a male getting pregnant, film it, and ask from people to open their eyes! My question is the kids that they have now, what is their future? Are they going to take the same way that their parents did? What about the community that now accepting this. Is it considering a healthy one! For people who say they don’t care. Are you going to do it in the nearest future and let your kids do that? We all should care and we all should stop that violence this is extremely wrong, and the world is just getting worst by accepting these behaviors and letting them pass through the generation under the term of Who I am to judge! I am part of the community that I am dying every day to support myself and my family and be able to provide a healthy environment for my kids when they grew up. But, who I am to judge! POINTOFVIEW012
I personally could never imagine doing such a thing, but I believe people who feel as if they are not meant to be the gender they are can not help it. I think most do not one day decide they want to be the opposite sex I think they always have felt out of place in their own skin and eventually figure out ways to feel best. Feeling best for them is being the gender they are not. I do not care what they do, if being a certain gender that they are not makes them happy then so be it. Also if Thomas Beaty wanted to have a baby even though he identifies as a man I do not mind. The one thing I do mind is the child. If him being the "pregnant man" was not so publicized I would not mind. The fact this was publicized I do not want the child to be known as the "pregnant mans child". I think if the mom and dad acted to the child that the mom had her and that Thomas Beaty is her dad until she reaches a very mature stage. If Thomas and his spouse were okay with the publicity this had is what concerns me. If that were me I would have kept it under wraps not because I am ashamed of who I am but for my childs sake. It is not fair if the kid grows up confused on why other kids did not come from their dads stomach. Once people like that start having kids then I believe trasgender or gay people will actually be like that from birth and it will begin to be learned. If this kid knew all growing up my daddy had me and my mommy did not then he views that as the right way to do it. Then he will be some sort of LGBT not from day one but as a learned trait. One person is not concerning but if there were more people doing this then I would begin to become concerned. Anyone can identify as whatever gender they want until it can effect someone elses without the person having a say AKA the childs. For them to let his pregnancy be so publicized it shows they also may have wanted something from it, the attention, money, or mini fame. I just do not agree on the way they went about it seems fishy to me. Not against the way he feels though, I respect the way he feels most comfortable. The good thing is that it is his life and he has the right tho choose the way he wants to live. I probably should not have that much if an input on it I am only concerned about the ways it would effect the baby. gea012
This was one of those videos where I was left stunned and speechless. When transgender first became a thing, I didn’t agree with it nor did I find a reason for it and to this day I feel the same way. This video completely blew me mind. I don’t agree with it but furthermore my religion doesn’t. I believe God made you who he wanted you to be and that’s that. I don’t agree with changing your gender because you were put on this earth for a purpose just the way you are. I feel like why change that? For Thomas, I remember in the video him mentioning how his mother passed and his father made him start modeling and he did not see himself as beautiful. In my opinion, she was pretty, and I don’t feel like she had to change herself. I actually witnessed a situation like this one. Growing up, at church I knew a girl that felt she was unattractive through her teenage years. She would say very little and walk with her head down all the time because she was insecure. Often times she would even get bullied. A few years ago, she changed her gender because of this situation. She got married to another woman as well. I feel situations like this could be prevented if people were not put down so much. Everyone tries to get the satisfactory from society instead of believing in their selves and doing what they feel is right. Also, I feel society has made the whole transgender thing feel like another social norm. That is why I feel plenty of people are coming out and they are not feeling bad about it anymore. I remember people used to be scared to come and say if they were gay. Now, it is just like people do not think twice about it they just decide to do it and go for it. I don’t like to talk down badly on them because we may not always their background. The reasonings I have heard in the past are similar to the one I shared above. They seem to always have to do with people having low self-esteem. This story was just very different. After listening to the mom say that once Thomas became pregnant her body started to change. She began to lactate so that she could breast feed her babies. I thought it was interesting to hear how they bought the syringe from the pet store and how the sperm got put into him. I never thought I that I would hear a story like this one. I know it’s an extreme eye opener for the older people. My grandparents tell me that these types of things were unacceptable in their time. I just think it’s crazy how social norms change over the years. There are many things that are okay now that were not years ago. All in all I don’t agree with this but I feel you have to be careful with how you comment on these things. prettygirlhd012
We initially began the conversation about this topic in class on Wednesday. The original picture definitely shocked me because I was not expecting someone who looks like a man to be pregnant with a child. A huge part of me still has a hard time fathoming what truly goes through a transgenders mind. As it stands biologically, with what is going on in the mind set aside, you are born with either male or female parts. There are rare cases in which a person is born with both parts, but for the most part you are either one or the other. In my opinion, if someone is getting pregnant and then giving birth to a child, then they are a woman. As far as this goes, I do not personally agree with it. I have never had thoughts about wanting to change my gender, so I can’t truly day I understand how a person like that truly feels. I can say that I believe in keeping the gender I was born with. This being said, I do also believe that it is not my life. A person can choose to do whatever they want with their life. I won’t tell them how to live their life because it is their choice. If this was something that could put the baby’s life at risk, then I would definitely say that it is not okay. For example, the different in the medications that the person is initially taking before the pregnancy has such extreme effects on her body and its makeup that there is a very good chance it could affect the baby in some way, shape, or form although I do not know this for sure because I am not a doctor. If no risk is posed to the child then I believe that it goes back to the couple’s decision because it is their life and in no way affects anyone else but themselves. I do agree with the commentator to an extent when she asked if he was only doing this so that he could have the best of both worlds because to an extent he is. He is calling himself a male and reaping all the benefits of that while still taking advantage of the fact that he was biologically born a woman. It could be argued that he is not doing this, and that the only reason that he chose to give birth was because his wife could not. At the end of the day, the only person that knows what his true intentions is him. If they are not doing anything that is illegal under the laws of our state and country then they can do whatever they want as far as giving birth. It could also be stated that they may possibly be doing this for attention now at this point. If this was all about just wanting a baby, they would not have continually been staying in contact with the media. This whole process has made them famous in a sense, giving them a lot of attention. Like I said though, in the end it’s ultimately their choice. (Patriots012)
To me, I didn’t really hear anything about transgenders up until the big Caitlyn Jenner scandal. I personally don’t agree with this. I don’t want to sound like an asshole (pardon my language) but I feel that if you are born with a penis, you’re born a male. If you are born with a vagina, you are born a girl. I don’t see how people say they are born male but deep inside they are female or the same vice versa. I mean I’m not going to hate you just for that. It is your decision and your life. If you’re cool with me I’ll be cool with you. I do feel bad for all the hate that Thomas and his family got from other people. You have to have something wrong with you to wish death upon someone because that’s just pure evil. I am concerned about the kids and how they will be treated in the real world because its full of haters and evil. I did some digging in this story because I found it interesting. I was shocked when I found out how many kids Thomas was able to have. Not one, not two, but three kids. Towards the end of the video, the interviewee brought up a good point. When she brought up if Thomas considered himself the child’s father or the mother. He said the father. Then I thought how could you consider yourself a father, if YOUR eggs were used which are part of the females reproductive system? And before I knew it she hit that point as well. I could see the hesitation look in Thomas’ face like “Oh shit, I didn’t think about it like that.” She had a valid point in my opinion because the eggs do belong to the female’s reproductive system and sperm or seamen belongs to the male’s reproductive system. When this was brought up in class, I was surprised to see and hear how many people were against it. Everyone was entitled to their own opinions and I did agree with some of the points that were brought up from that discussion. I can get religious and say that god made us the way he wanted us to be and live. He doesn’t want us to alter or change ourselves in any way shape or form. It is kind of hypocritical because in a way some of us have altered or changed the way we look. Whether it would be a tattoo, scar, or a piercing. Now I can look at it from both point of views but I side more with the “men are men and females are females” point of view. That’s how I think it should be. It is sad though because while I read deeper in the story, I found out that he was divorced form Nancy which was Thomas’ wife. But soon after, he met Amber from Thomas’ kid’s school. This was pretty interesting all around for me but I will still support my opinion about the whole situation. -Chewbacca012
I agree with so many of your points here. I agree that babies and children should get all the chances and not be judged based on their parents and their parents decisions. I also agree with the point you made about homeless childrena nd orphans who need to be adopted because that is a big issue in our world today. I believe he also should have remained female if he wanted to have his own biological children. I like how you made your statement saying that you are not judging, because I too believe that judging is God's role, but that you have your own beliefs and that you are entitled to them ad to your opinions. - mommaj'skid012
The first time I watched this video I had to pause every once in a while just to get the facts straight and wrap my head around the whole thing. In my opinion they are a traditional family. There is a woman who identifies himself as a man, a woman, and a baby girl. It may not be “normal” but what even is normal anymore? We think things are normal just because we were raised to believe in those certain things and that it can ONLY be that one way but in reality every single person is different and there is no right, wrong, or normal way to do things. This is 2018, people are going to do whatever they want regardless of the opinion of others, especially when those opinions come from people the family does not even know or have close ties with.. Thomas was spot on when he said the terms “mom” and “dad” are just social terms. Who are you and I or anyone for that matter to tell this man he cannot be called “dad” just because he was the one who gave birth? People like this give me so much hope for a more open minded future and will hopefully have children who will change the world! Not necessarily to think as they do but to just be more accepting towards everyone in our culture and in other cultures as well. The woman interviewing Mr. Mum and his wife really bothers me. She’s trying her hardest to bring him down and can’t even be happy for the family in the slightest bit especially at the end when he announces his second pregnancy. People like that woman make me sad for the world we live in. We are so accustomed to thinking one way and having such a strong opinion on how others live their lives, it’s heartbreaking. What happened to worrying about yourself and not others? Why are we so quick to judge instead of trying to understand? I really love how Thomas says that he feels as if one is not born a man, but that they become a man. He says he used his female reproductive organs to become a father. He explains that his female reproductive organs don’t make him any less or more of a man than if he had a penis and although I don’t actually agree with that 1000%, he gave me a new look on that part of life and it challenges my thoughts on that subject which is really cool. Thomas’ wife is awesome! “I don’t like labels, I’m just in love with this person” was her response to people who claim her and Thomas are still lesbians. This couple is not hurting anyone, they’re not shoving their way of thinking down anyone’s throats, they simply want to be accepted for who they are and want people to open their minds and at least try to understand that everyone is different but were all here together just trying to live our best life. -isitnaptimeyet012
As I watched this video for the first time, there were many things that surprised me. I first want to clarify, that even though this is something that I would not partake in and could never see myself doing, it is not hurting me in any way so I do not really care about what they do, but it bothers me slighty. On the other hand, I was very surprised to learn that they went into hiding for a little while considering they seem to be very open and proud and not ashamed of who they are or what they did. I get that the media and people can be hurtful, but if you believe that you did nothing wrong and you believe it is normal, do not hide! They see themselves as a traditional family, which I do not totally agree with because in the past of the human race, a traditional family is mom, dad, kids and mom is who gave birth. Thomas believes that you are not born a man. He believes that you become a man. He talked about how he got psychological testing that said he identifies as a man. At what point in a person's life do they become a man? I am a little confused on how he was prominent in being a man and wanted to be one, so he had surgery to remove his breasts and began taking testosterone, then stopped. Stopping his testosterone would begin to make him female again in the physical way which is what he wanted to get away from since he never said he felt pretty in his body. He than became pregnant which is normally the females role in life. He said he never got the maternal feeling during or after his pregnancy and refers to himself as his baby's father. At the time of this video, he tells the talk show host that he is pregnant again. The last point I want to make refers to Thomas not changing his sex organs. He said that his appearance and sex organs do not make him a man or a woman, but he got his breasts removed. Maybe i am misundertanding what he is trying to tell his audience, but that it how I interpreted his message. My opinion of this whole thing is that I would never do something like this and I do not understand why they could not have adopted a child? There are many kids out there who need loving parents and a place to call home. I know plenty of people who were not able to have children, so they adopted and they are living very happy and healthy lives and so are their adopted children. I wonder and worry about the child. Growing up, you always learn about how "you came from your mom." These kids are going to be taught the opposite at home. I can definitetly see how that could confuse the mids of small children. I would never think of doing something of this sort, I would look at other options that I have. - mommaj'skid012
I love this kind of thing. Cases like this forces me to open up my mind to unordinary and different things. Although im very open minded im having a slight issue with this video. I showed my mother this video and she completely over reacted, like it was one of her own children making this type of decision. My mom only acted the way she acted toward this video because of her religion. I told her she needs to be open minded to things like this. I told her not everybody thinks or have the same mindset as our family. And she is still fighting me tooth and nail on this subject. But as i watch this video i had to pause several times to wrap my head around some of the facts. I actually watched the video like four times. And i have different views on the video First i love transgender people i feel like they know what they want for themselves. Just like this man. He knew as a young teenage girl that this was not him necessarily. He said he never felt he was a pretty girl. But him knowing his own self i think is great. Then he was able to find someone out there who love him for him and not because he was male or female thats too is great. I think it is very troubling that the couple had to go into hiding because of death threats and things of that nature. That proves people are not open minded and not willing to adapt to change and different. I think it is awful how many negative comments the couple got. The fear of the unknown definitely influence society in avery negative way. Bouncing off of the fact that thomas mother passed. Not having that mother role in his life as a young girl could be extremely damaging to his psych. Growing up without a mother could have left a void in his development. And that can go for anyone. So maybe that has part in why he made the decision that he made. Where i stand in this whole ordeal is that, im not for nor against Mr. Thomas decision. Because naturally how i was raised, i would think NO! He is wrong or this decision god created you as a man or women nothing in between. I would think its not right to change your body the way he did then on top of him wanting to be a man and the bearing a child is crazy. But on the other hand i feel as if im pretty open minded to most things and the decision he made to become a man was for himself. As for every transgender they know themselves and they know who or what they want to be. And in the video Thomas said he only got pregnant because his spouse could not. So it not like he woke up and said i want to shock the world and become a pregnant man. He did it for the comfort of his family. -cheese012
When the world of transgender people was recently brought to light in recent years to me, at first I did not necessarily understand nor did i really agree with it. And still today I don't see the point, i am happy with the biological gender I was born into and I don't want to change it at all. However not everyone is me, and some people are just not happy with their own skin, or their own body and want to change it. And I totally am all for it, if you think it will benefit you and doesn’t negatively affect anyone else go for it. I also don't understand the hate for someone who wants to do something to make themselves feel better or become their true selves, and some people find it themselves by transitioning into another gender, and thats okay. during the interview the woman interviewing the couple says the image of Thomas being pregnant is “disturbing” I just wanted to address this because not only is it far from anything disturbing it also shows that this is a great example of cultural deviancy. This is not normal, it's not bad but it, it's just a normal everyday thing you see. It’s a pretty rare sight to see a man pregnant. However with modern technology it is absolutely possible to see that more often. It may be strange to some of us behind the curve but the open minded will welcome something like this. Just because you don’t like it does not mean you can call it wrong or disgusting. This is what this person wanted to do. Does it harm you? Does it affect you in anyway? Or does it just make you upset? No, and people still have the nerve to call this man and his baby an “abomination” it amazes me that someone going against the grain, and challenging the norm can create such hate. But that is deviancey of it. It is a necessary “evil” if you will. It changes the tide from rejection to acceptance eventually. We are too concerned pushing our ideas on things we’re unfamiliar with. For example “who is the mother and who is the father” who cares? As long as the child is raised healthy, pointed in the right direction, and is educated who really cares about what label we can put on the parents, besides just that, parents. In the end of the video its like they’re talking about its 2 bears raising a child, they list off all of the things they do like “normal parents” and its hilarious to me that if its not a cookie-cutter family its just not right and wont work. Like its so amazing that a transgender man and a woman raise a child together. Also the interviewers reaction to the second pregnancy is golden, she seemed horrified by the fact they would have another kid, this is so out of the ordinary it freaks people out and that's what makes it so interesting, they’re still people still having human children.
ReplyDeleteBossMan012
I also didn’t really understand or agree with this at first, until I watched the interview. Then after getting all the facts it made a bit more since. I myself can never see wanting to change my gender, but if someone decides to that is really their choice and can make the decision if they see fit. Yes it will come with some backlash but if this is something a person strongly feels and wants then it’s their free will. I believe that a person’s social class has apart in the nature of a person also. When a certain group people have things and feelings of the same nature they tend to not care as much on how others view them. It’s all most like getting tattoos all over your body and going out in public away from your social group, you will probably have a lot of people who will view you differently and put a label on you without knowing anything about you. I think if more people had the chance to venture outside of their box and opened their eyes and just take a moment to think about how large the world is and that it’s many different cultures, religions, and life styles other than what someone is accustomed to. Just me012
DeleteI totally agree with you. Personally, I don't necessarily agree with the transgender thing either. I feel like you were born for a reason the way you were. I feel like you don't have change yourself. At the same time though society accepts it and people are free to do what they want.
Deleteprettygirlhd012
This video and story is complex, convoluted, and fascinating for many different reasons. First off, it is extremely important that when discussing this video, we distinguish between questions of value and morals (right and wrong) and other discussions that are based in sociological terminology and logic.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, discussing purely the logic of the scenario, I personally do not at all understand or comprehend the “wonder” or “amazement” of this occurence. It appears that there was an insane amount of awe and unbelief that came from the public and strangers when this event took place. Every one seemed baffled and struck dumb at the sheer thought and novel idea of the first pregnant man. However, this doesn’t really make sense. This image is indeed a bizarre one and one that people are not altogether familiar with, but biologically, the person who gave birth to the baby is a woman (keep in mind, I am speaking strictly in terms of biology here). It is not as though someone who was born with male genitalia was suddenly with child - the steps taken to begin the pregnancy were truthfully nothing new, foreign, or groundbreaking: female egg and male sperm put together and meeting in order that they might form a baby that would then go on to grow inside of a uterus. No matter how the person identifies or feels gender-wise (not talking morals here) the body of the individual in question remains a woman’s - point blank. Surgery cannot change DNA.
Going off of that point, however, one thing that is pretty amazing is that the baby was not harmed in any way and did not suffer any hormonal issues from the fluctuating hormones of her biological mother, nor did she seem to suffer any disfigurations due to being born in a body that had been altered.
Now, in terms of the sociological aspect, the reason that this is so complicated is that this was the first occurrence of a women’s body that was treated with testosterone to then proceed with the process of a pregnancy - it makes complete and total sense that the situation is alarming.
Now to move on to discuss the values and/or the morality of the instance. One thing that is a possible negative of gender-reassignment is that it is not accepting oneself for who they are. In every other case of people not feeling comfortable in their own skin, the steps they take to try to feel better are often not positive ones. When someone believes themselves to be overweight, the extremely unhealthy habit of anorexia develops. Additionally, people are always promoting the idea of being comfortable with yourself as you are - not as you want to be. If you are always in search of your ideal, it can often be very difficult to be truly happy and content because it is never in your grasp.
Finally, to mention the morality of the debate, everyone has different thoughts about this. However, no matter what you believe, it is important that everyone be respectful of each other. I am a Christian, and I don’t necessarily feel as though this is right, but those opinions in NO WAY justifies any sort of disrespect or violence against anyone else’s way of life (so long as it doesn’t hurt others). We are all people, and the only way to get along is to be kind to one another - we all have something to learn.
- MAXIMA012
I can see your debate, you think it’s not right as a Christian and that's fine. I as a Christian have no problems with it, its not hurting me in any way. First, I just think that is Mr. Mums business and not everybody else's. I can see why it would be a story in the media. But, at the end of day, it is what it is because is not like the people are going to stop him from doing it. I care for others, but if this man wants to do that, than let him be. - LILPUMP012
DeleteI also agree with your sentiment about the amount of surprise when the news broke that a transgender man could carry a child. While yes, it is definitely a break in our societal norms, it is pretty basic biologically. "When mommy and daddy love each other very much"...etc.
DeleteI am torn about the argument of personal acceptance. While I agree that we should all feel comfortable in the bodies that we were given, and not take any drastic measures to try and conform to society, I think this scenario takes on a whole different dynamic. I guess I imagine it as being trapped inside of a body that you know is not who you are, and I would imagine that is terrifying and frustrating, especially in a society where coming out as transgender or homosexual, etc, can be extremely daunting. -CSP012
I like how you mentioned feeling like you’re stuck in the wrong body could bring about frustration and fear. I feel like as a society we tend to blur out the emotional states that we encounter and try to only focus on the physical state in which we are in. When differences like this happen I feel like it would be easier to talk about if we were mindful of each other's individual baggage and feelings. Whether you’re homosexual or transgender you're not just fighting that battle with yourself but also with society because we’re too stubborn to say “since you are the one living your life day to day, it may be wise to try to let you have control over it”. When we take away individuals’ rights to think and act freely, we say forget how you feel because emotions don’t affect everyone else.
DeleteLayBae012
In the video Transgender, Birth, and Thoughts, at first I didn’t know what to expect, or what or how this is even possible and why go from a female to a male and back to a female. It even sounds out the normal just saying it to myself. But after watching the video I came to a better understanding about the situation. The first thing that I noticed in the video is that they mentioned his mother committed suicide, and I believe even though his father wanted him to do modeling and all the things that a young woman should do was too much pressure and that he might have been missing the mother role in his life and was adapting more so of the father, and could have lead up to wanting to become a man. Also they explained why he wanted to have the child himself, he and his wife didn’t want that burden on a stranger and the main reason was because they both wanted a child of their own but she couldn’t have children. I myself am a person who never judges anyone so this made more since once this main fact was brought to my attention, if they are in love and want to have a child and bring the child up in a positive environment with love and care, more power to them! I am not saying that everyone would except it and that the child may have problems when out in society from those that are not as excepting as others, but they really shouldn’t worry about it because it’s not as if the family isn’t causing any harm to anyone but wanting to live as a ordinary family, but the reality of it as he mentioned is that a lot of people are crazy and want to harm them. I have come to learn people are afraid of things that are different or the unknown. I myself don’t have the time to wonder about another person and their business because of my own life and problems along with my daily routines. The community and their neighbors gave them support leading up to them having their child which was something that they didn’t have to do but showed much class and maturity they have and the kind of upbringing that they were taught, and probably came to the realization of the situation. Meaning that they are not any different from them but just want to play the role in society just as any other normal family just as we all do. Everyone may agree or disagree on this type of topic men may not care a little bit less then woman, woman may not be able to bare children in the same situation as his wife and may feel as it is not as fare. But after taking in all the facts and details I can see why took this direction, and as long as they are not producing creatures that want to harm us, I think they should have as many as they please without the input of those that just see something as strange or not normal in societies eyes. Just me 012
ReplyDeleteIn the video Transgender, Birth, and Thoughts, at first I didn’t know what to expect, or what or how this is even possible and why go from a female to a male and back to a female. It even sounds out the normal just saying it to myself. But after watching the video I came to a better understanding about the situation. The first thing that I noticed in the video is that they mentioned his mother committed suicide, and I believe even though his father wanted him to do modeling and all the things that a young woman should do was too much pressure and that he might have been missing the mother role in his life and was adapting more so of the father, and could have lead up to wanting to become a man. Also they explained why he wanted to have the child himself, he and his wife didn’t want that burden on a stranger and the main reason was because they both wanted a child of their own but she couldn’t have children. I myself am a person who never judges anyone so this made more since once this main fact was brought to my attention, if they are in love and want to have a child and bring the child up in a positive environment with love and care, more power to them! I am not saying that everyone would except it and that the child may have problems when out in society from those that are not as excepting as others, but they really shouldn’t worry about it because it’s not as if the family isn’t causing any harm to anyone but wanting to live as a ordinary family, but the reality of it as he mentioned is that a lot of people are crazy and want to harm them. I have come to learn people are afraid of things that are different or the unknown. I myself don’t have the time to wonder about another person and their business because of my own life and problems along with my daily routines. The community and their neighbors gave them support leading up to them having their child which was something that they didn’t have to do but showed much class and maturity they have and the kind of upbringing that they were taught, and probably came to the realization of the situation. Meaning that they are not any different from them but just want to play the role in society just as any other normal family just as we all do. Everyone may agree or disagree on this type of topic men may not care a little bit less then woman, woman may not be able to bare children in the same situation as his wife and may feel as it is not as fare. But after taking in all the facts and details I can see why took this direction, and as long as they are not producing creatures that want to harm us, I think they should have as many as they please without the input of those that just see something as strange or not normal in societies eyes. Just me 012
ReplyDeleteGood video! First, I don’t know what year the interview was made, but the interviewer calls it ‘disturbing’. I do not understand because I would not go to far calling it ‘disturbing’. Like its 2018 already! Stuff goes down. Also, Mr. Mum states, “you’re not born a man but become a man…however, born biological male”. You are either born male or female after coming out of the womb. However, sad to hear his mother died. I can defiantly feel for him why he was uncomfortable doing the modeling because his father pushed him into it. I feel like anyone should do what they feel is good for them. The pictures though, what a difference from now to before. He felt he was not beautiful at all as a female, kind of shocking. Also, I think I heard him say that they bought sperm online. If that’s correct, than I never had such idea you can do that. I think the moral of the whole story is that both couples are happy and not what other people think. For them, it all works out because the wife could not have kids anyway, so he Mr. Mum did. Surely you can adopt kids? But some people want a kid just like themselves, so they did whatever was possible for them to have kids. As for other people, they might not like the idea. But, who are they to say such thing? If we were in his shoes, we can view the world differently and think differently. Others do not see that, or it may just take some time to process. But, at the end of the day, it should not be something new because there is always something crazy going to pop up in the media. I wish them both the best and everything goes well for them. I don’t have no issues with it, does not bother me. I don’t have time to judge others, but is crazy what science can do. Just as were learning in social ology class, society is always moving forward. In the clip states, “the baby is an abomination”. Just like I said, the media and people escalate the situation than it already is. You cannot blame the baby! It’s not the baby’s fault for coming into the world, matter in fact, nobody is at fault. It’s just that media and people, they have no room to talk. People think that Mr.Mum is insane, crazy, weird, but the people and the media are the ones who are weird, crazy, and insane are those who say those things. It does not matter what other people say because what they say does not say anything about you, but says more about them. So, people just need to stay in their business and maybe they can try to be in his shoes for once and see how it feels. People need to act more respectful and of course everybody has their own thought sand opinions. So respects for Mr. Mum for being so laid-back and not carrying what other say. - LILPUMP012
ReplyDeleteFirst I want to start off with how I really had a different input about this man and female until I watched this video. Before this video I thought about it as He/She did it because the wife was unable to get pregnant, which i thought it was nice because the husband had no limits to give the wife what she wanted. But, why not adopt or hire a surrogate I just did not understand there train and thought and why they picked the route they did. But hey they did what they wanted as a couple but hid from the world and is so unhappy with how the world is acting.
ReplyDeleteThe video: Starting off I was very interested with what he had to say but later it started to anger me. The man was a girl for real in her younger years modeled and had boyfriends but always felt male? But uses the word he never felt beautiful. After having a girlfriend that did not care about gender she wanted to become a man. Started taking testosterone and removed her breasts but decided to keep her vagina and reproductive organs. When asked how the couple considered themselves they replied a male and female couple which was interesting because he stopped taking his medication in this video and was pregnant once again. He considers himself as the dad even though he used HIS eggs and said he will never feel like a mother but carried their kid for nine months and delivered vaginally. He had to get pregnant like any other woman with sperm being inserted. What is stated next is that you are not born a man we become men. But that makes it sound like we choose what we are growing up when in reality we are born the way we are, children know as soon as playing on the playground if they will like girls or boys or feel different. The way they go about this is why I feel the world is so angry you want to be both genders and argue this to the media that you are male but carrying a baby is what the mother does? That is something that was only given to the mother your trying to be both and I feel like it was only given to the female for a reason. The world around us is changing and this will not be the last story because in reality we can freely do what we want with our bodies, but I feel like this couple was not ready to see how the world was gone act. The babies could have problems later on due to the medicine he was taking before these babies and he will not ever think of it like this. These kids will have to know the truth growing up being only similar to your dad but not your mom. It is just so sad because these kids will have a lot of challenges in life they did not think about.
Campbell012
While you provide some interesting points that did cross my mind when first hearing this story. I think when Thomas was Tracy in his earlier years he simply tried to act like a girl to please his father and the societal norms that we have in place. When he finally began the transition by taking testosterone and removing his breasts he was trying to look like a man to society, so that society would begin to identify him as a man. It takes time and a lot of money to have the entire gender confirmation surgery completed, so that is not simply a problem that could be taken care of in one day. As I learned after giving birth to a total of three children, he had his genitals surgically altered to align with his male identity, and he is back on testosterone. As far as the idea of him seeing himself as a father even though he carried out what we know as the maternal role of getting pregnant and caring the baby for nine months, I try to turn the tables to understand his thought process. Just because a woman does not get pregnant weather she is able to or not, does not make her any less of a mother of a child. Even though this is a very sensitive and confusing topic, I am just trying to be open and maybe try to understand others’ ways of life. Again, I think it goes back to how people define their role in society, whether it matches the norms exactly or not. MySliceofthePi012
DeleteThis video definitely clarifies some aspects of the discussion we had in class. We should have had more context when discussing this, considering the suicide of a parent and inability for a couple to bear children are both extremely traumatizing and psychologically altering events. Growing up without a mother leaves a void in the development of someone, especially a girl, who does not have a prominent feminine figure to imitate and learn from. A wife being sterile can cause immense strain on a relationship, as she may start to feel inadequate, which leads to even worse effects on her psych, and they both may feel hopeless about their wishes to start a family.
ReplyDeleteBoth of those reasons make it much easier for me to have no qualms with Mr. Mum’s choice to have a sex change. Just due to the fact that this practice is relatively new in society, I have a hard time understanding it. Of course, that is coming from the perspective of a young, heterosexual white male. Fear of the unknown is the basis for nearly every major societal issue, and transgenders are no exception. In fact, the majority of people who are transgender could not be discriminated between other “normal” members of their gender. What really irks me is when someone reveals that they are a transgender, and their acquaintance acts like they are a completely new person. I just cannot understand why we can’t accept people for who they are personally, as opposed to societally.
The fact that Mr. Mum bore a child so that his family could begin is admirable, to me at least. While it is definitely considered deviant behavior, simply because it is a major break in our societal norms -- a male bearing and birthing a child, it is by no means wrong. I am not a religious person, so that mindset does not play a part in my opinion. I can imagine, however, that most devout religious folk see a major problem with this scenario, and that is fine. Mr. Mum’s decision has no effect on me, so I have zero problems with it.
Another perspective that I can see people viewing this situation from, however, is a publicity stunt. Everyone wants to be the first to do something, and while Mr. Mum may not be the first pregnant male, he is definitely one of the most publicized. Like they say, any publicity is good publicity, so Mr. Mum is probably benefiting economically from his pregnancy. While I hope this was not his main purpose in pursuing pregnancy, I do think it may have been partial motivation. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, gaining financial security for your child and family simply by having the child is pretty neat. Hopefully, through all of his talk show visits and publicity, Mr. Mum raises awareness and eventually acceptance for all types of people, transgender, homosexual, you name it. -CSP012
I think you have some great points here. I totally agree with you regarding your point about the great void it most defiantly left in the childhood of Thomas when his mother passed away after committing suicide. Coming from a female perspective here I can totally vouch for the fact that something as traumatic and devastating would have certainly left me in a depressed and struggling position. I can’t help but wonder if that had very profound affect on the decision that ultimately led to her becoming Thomas Beatie. I also agree with you about the respect and disrespect we give towards people that are transgender. Although I am a devout Christian in my faith I do believe that no matter what a person has done or become we must always love them as the beautiful human being that they are. -THEARSONIST012
DeleteYou raise some valid point in your argument but I must stand firm in my belief that the transgenderism movement and the choice made is one I do not personally agree with. I am not trying to sound like a jerk and I will be the first to tell you that I do not know everything. I still believe that the choice was a bit wrong in my eyes. Perhaps I was raised that way, perhaps I adopted my stance as I grew up. Regardless, I do not feel as if the choice was right. I am happy that they are happy but at what costs. The child and the family may have been accepted by neighbors but the child, I fear, will suffer backlash from having transgender parents as well as the family as a whole facing hardships as the road progresses. I wish nothing but the best for them as all people deserve happiness, especially in the US as it is in our constitution. That being said, I still, personally, disagree with the choices made. –TheMarshall012
DeleteI totally agree with the point you made about how the fear of the unknown influences society. There are so many situations that people are uncomfortable with solely because they are unfamiliar. While this phenomenon makes sense, because humans are creatures of habit, it is totally unfair that people behave that way. There are in fact some things that we should approach with caution because they can be dangerous or a slippery slope, but, we shouldn’t as humans let our discomfort dictate how we treat people or view the world. Our state of being uncomfortable should only reflect us, and shouldn’t be the basis by which we form our worldview: that is how we get segregation.
Delete- MAXIMA012
This video and the story is shares is truly fascinating. As I sit down to write this I am honestly a little overwhelmed with where I should begin.
ReplyDeleteMany of us may look at this and marvel at this new and quite outstanding fact that a human being that our culture perceives as “male” is in fact able to carry a child within their body. I will admit that when first reading over this story and glancing at the picture my brain was confused. The question of how kept circulating in my brain. How could a man become pregnant? I believe that God created humans and therefore that He created us male and female. If you don’t have a Christian belief system, or if you have different views or thoughts on the subject of creation and who we are made to be, you are completely entitled to your own opinion and I will respect that wholeheartedly. However, from the way of life I have chosen to follow as a Christian I believe that there is right and wrong in this world. Because of my faith I believe that this as a whole is truthfully wrong. I respect this man, Thomas Beatie because he is with every right a human being and I don’t have any hate or dislike toward him in the least. I simply do not support the choice that he made regarding changing his gender. I can chose to love a human without supporting simple choices they have made and this is an example of that. Although Thomas Beatie is recognized by our American society as truly a male human being; he still possess the internal organs of a female. When looking up the definition of a male in the dictionary I found that it is described as “a human, plant, or animal that gives of it’s bodily self to a female of it’s kind to create new life.” In the case of a plant, that giving might be of pollen or some kind of plant life to create new and beautiful plants. However in the case of humans there is the giving of sperm from a male human being to the female. This contradicts how we can view Thomas if he is unable to give of his own sperm to create new life. I think it is truly fascinating to simply look at this situation from a worldly perspective outside of any religion or belief system. Therefore, I wonder if the description of what a male is in our wold will change? Will this deviance on Thomas’ part begin the change of how we view male and female in our world? I think this is also an example of how the science and technology in our wold are so rapidly changing that we are not truly able to process and accept it at the rate that it is becoming a reality. I think there are so many different parts of this story that we can talk about an explore. However I do think that it is important that we talk about and discuss the changes in our world.
-THEARSONIST012
I usually agree with a lot of comments on these discussion boards, but this one I do not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and there probably is no true right or wrong in deciding who's beliefs are better. But, i will say this. It is 2018. Living so close minded and only seeing the world from a religious point of view is not smart. The world is changing and people are allowed to be who they were born to be more so than ever before. You don't have to understand it, but I don't understand you and yet here we are coexisting with one another. I am a religious person also but I think people can be whoever and live as freely as they want, as long as they aren't hurting others in the process. Sure, biologically they are born one way but that isn't who they are internally. Everyone should be able to express themselves the way they want to and love the way they want to.
DeleteHOOTIEGRL012
First I would like to start by saying everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If this man wanted to have a baby by all means that's his decision he can do as he please. I think everyone is so caught up in what's 'normal' and what's not. I honestly feel like if we didn't have set expectations in society everything would be fine and everybody wouldn't be so judgmental. This video was so interesting to me. When we first discussed Thomas in class I didn't have anything to say about him. The whole process of him giving birth threw me off. That was the only thing I had to say because I've learned you should learn ones background before judging them. I'm glad I didn't because his story is interesting. The fact he was born a woman but was psychologically identified as a man is something I never heard of in my life. You can't judge what he did after learning these things. In the video they explained how in order to get pregnant Thomas had to stop taking his male hormones. That was fascinating to me just to think he can switch from being a man back to a woman seems so unreal. As far as their opinion on abortion and a surrogate, that's their choice. If this is their piece of happiness they deserve to be happy. I'm not used to hearing 'you got your husband pregnant' nor seeing a man with a baby bump. But that's different, and normal is boring. After getting to know their story and learning the reason behind why Thomas did what he did it made it easier for me to understand and I actually do not look at them any different than a average family. In fact, their an extraordinary family if you ask me. You have to learn not to judge others on their decisions. As long as his wife is ok with it other peoples opinion on this man does not matter. I thought it was crazy when he mentioned he received death threats over this. It's ridiculous to me that goes to show ignorant and bothered people are it's honestly sad. This is why society cannot function as a whole. Everybody has different outlooks on things which is fine but where we fail to come together is understanding one another.I believe if we can't even do that than at least mind your own business when it comes to norm 'violations'. Basically, if you're not going to put your opinions and outlook to the side to get to know the other persons reasoning behind something at least keep the negative comments to yourself. Overall I really enjoyed the video, I learned some new things, that I actually want to learn about in biology. Very fascinating and interesting.
ReplyDelete-JEWELS012
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone has the right to make their own decisions. Me personally I do not agree with what this now man did. I don’t agree with it because God made man and women for a reason and he created every single person the way he wanted them to be. God made no mistakes so why change the beautiful creation he made which is you. Yes you may not like the way you look on the outside but that doesn’t mean you should change it like this. I think that the man didn’t really make sense in the interview because he was talking about how you should feel less manly or more feminine because of something but yet he change his body so that he could become a man. If he truly feel that way then why not stay the same. He changed himself because he didn’t feel like he was who he truly wanted to be which was a man. So technically he wanted to feel more manly than feminine. Now don’t get me wrong I’m don’t agree in what he did but I also don’t agree with how other people responded to him and his wife about the situation they were saying how he should die and we’re wishing bad things on the baby. They child did nothing wrong it was brought into the world without their dong so I don’t feel that wishing bad things in a child was the right thing to do I think it was an awful thing to do. Another thing that I was uneasy about was the fact that he still had the private part of a women even though everything else turned into make parts and appearances i think he could just had one either masculine if you want to be a man or female of you want to be a women. I understand the reason why he did this was because he wife couldn’t get pregnant. Though they ended up still having a sperm donor which crazy Cuz they technically still ended up having a staffers baby’s it’s just the stranger wasn’t carrying the baby the man was. Granted I do say that they are a modern family in a sense that modern families have evolved overtime. It’s not just man,women as child it can be man,man and child or women, women and child that’s what’s modern day families look like nowadays because society has been a little more accepting. I’m all I do not agree with the decision the man made but it in no way affects me and I’m not going to give his family hate because of it nor am I going to ponder on it and be mad about it. It’s his decision and his life he is a now grown man who can do what he wants though that doesn’t mean that I support it because I believe and know that God made us made us exactly how he wanted us to be and who he wanted us to be .
ReplyDelete-IDK123012
I agree that everybody is entitled their own opinions. I love your response as a whole because I don't agree with this at all and I do feel like god mad man for women and women for men. I do believe god made you how you are and surgery should not change their appearance. Then they have a baby so now the baby is going to be confused and the baby will get bullied due to the fact of Mr.Mum. Kids are mean and I don't think they thought about how their decision could hurt their baby in the long run.
Delete~jolly rancher
I understand what you're saying about God making man and woman for a reason but that's something he needs to worry about. If he chose to mess with how God made him that's something only he should be worried about. Yes at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own opinion but everybody can't be defined as what society calls "normal" and this is why I feel society will never come come together as a whole because we can't put our opinion on something aside to feel or understand where someone else is coming from.
Delete-JEWELS012
Several years ago, when I first heard about this story, I was greatly confused and did not think it was right. Society greatly influenced my views of the world, so I was not able to see past the constructed reality that a majority of people have to come accept and live by. I grew up thinking that a family was like the nuclear family we discussed in class with a mother, a father, and two or three kids. Even though my parents are divorced, and I only lived with my mother, I still saw myself part of a “normal” family with a mother and a father. What made my family slightly different was that it was just divided. As the topic of family has made headlines again and again in the news, I began to see that a family does not have to follow the very strict set of guidelines that I imagined. I began to accept that families came in many different shapes and sizes, made up of many types of individuals.
ReplyDeleteI was introduced to the idea of transgender people when the TLC show “I am Jazz” premiered. At first, I did not think that it was right for someone who was born as a male or female to change who they were to become someone of the opposite gender. However, after watching several episodes and learning more about this idea, I am beginning to understand and accept it more. How I have come to see it as follows: When transgender people are born they do not feel comfortable in their own skin or body. They simply cannot stand the feeling of having to go through life with the sex they were assigned at birth. Until I learned this I could not fully understand this idea. Being born a female, myself, I feel comfortable and confident with the type of person I am. I am happy to be a female and to know I can look forward to all of the roles that come with being a female in our society. However, when I try to look at life through a transgender person’s eyes I have to ask myself, “What if I wasn’t happy to be a female?” When I ask myself this question I can see why some people are transgender. If I was not happy being a female it would make my life very challenging, miserable, and even hopeless.
With Thomas Beatie’s story I understood his want to transition to a male, but what made it difficult for me to fully understand his story is that he was willing to get pregnant. Initially, I did not fully understand Beatie’s want to get pregnant if he was not comfortable as a woman, but then I learned that his wife was not able to have children, so this made a bit more sense to me. I asked myself why would he willing want to get pregnant if there are other options that exist to have a child. I was able to hypothesize that maybe the couple did not want to have a surrogate because that is a rather expensive process when Beatie was capable of getting pregnant and giving birth.
Something that really shocked and surprised me is that Beatie said that he did not feel and maternal connection during his pregnancy. Also his wife, Nancy, started lactating as Thomas’ body changed. Thomas Beatie considers to be the father of his children, even though his eggs were used. I believe this story comes to show us that society more than biology greatly influences our lives. We are bound by society and as Thomas Beatie said, “mother and father are social terms.” In most cases, we gravitate toward and used social terms to define our lives and who we are. Even though I may not agree with everything, I now try to understand the world using a more sociological perspective. MySliceofthePi012
I Really liked how you ended your paragraph, I feel the same way you do. Only difference is that I still believe that Thomas is still a woman. I really didn’t understand how she could be lactating if her body didn’t physically go through the change he did. It was really interesting that you brought up the fact that we side with society more than biology, and that we allow society to change us more than biology. I feel like that is true, but is it right? I feel like things were made a certain way for a reason and serves a specific purpose who are we to change the biology of something and say, this is how it should be. Honestly, I’m a little conflicted. -Jaci7429
DeleteI really enjoyed your paragraph and your path of understanding transgender. I think you were very accepting even if you don't agree with all of it which is great! I wish I would of mentioned "I am Jazz" in my post because that was how I became accepting of this concept. I really like your ending and how u said that a nuclear family is just a societal term. There is no right or wrong to family. Some people live in households where they aren't related at all but they still call each other family. Having a husband and a wife and kids is just the stereotypical term of family, that point it more the framework of the American Dream for me. In reality America is full of so many different people and I think it is very important to be accepting of our differences because we are all not the same and that is what living here is all about. American is called the melting pot for a reason and a reason that isn't just cultures.-curlyhead012
DeleteThe transgender movement is, personally, a tad distasteful for me. I am not trying to sound like a jerk, but I just feel as if the entire transgender movement is wrong. I will probably catch some flak for this but I just do not agree with it at all really. “For all of human history boy meant boy and girl meant girl.” These word are a quote from Ben Shapiro. The thought that a person can change their gender based on a feeling is something I do not agree with at all. It is important that the differences between male and female are recognized and respected. The blur the line between male and females count be potentially catastrophic for cultures around the world. The gender of a person is, in my opinion and scientifically proven to be biological in nature. If a person has XX chromosomes, she is a woman. If a person has XY chromosomes, he is a male. I am fully aware if genetic mutations like a person being born with both male and female genitalia and I recognize these people, however, that is what it is. A mutation that is usually rare. One should not be able to choose base on the feeling, back in the day, this problem used to be called gender identity disorder and now is considered gender dysphoria. The biggest part that I feel strongly about is the fact that it affects the population directly. It is beginning to make its way into politics and is being pushed on other people. It is even going as far as too start to redefine our term of male and female. Both of which have scientific and biological backing as to the difference. Ben Shapiro did a go job in explaining my stance of transgenderism. He took and redefined the terms and asked if you think you are a cat, are you suddenly a cat or something of that sort. He also did it with age in asking a student who disagreed why she could not identify as a 60 year old. He finished with saying something along the lines of, you cannot magically change your age, and you cannot magically your gender. His saying essentially says that you are born the way you are and it is who you are. You should not be able to change it based on a thought. I personally see no benefit of transgenderism and while I believe a person should be happy, I do not think that it should be at the cost of an entire culture’s defined definition of male and female. I especially do not agree with it changing the US with now having to put it on official forms. This could potentially mess with a lot of government statistic and could even hinder medical treatment for the person a hand. It could even work as a tool for those sick individuals that prey on both men and women. A predator could easily say that he is a woman or a man today and now has unlimited access to that genders usually restricted area. In all, I personally do not agree with the movement at all and this video is no exception as I found no valid reason for it personally. –TheMarshall012
ReplyDeleteOmg, you have just summed up how I really feel! I stated in my paragraph that although Thomas identifies as a man he is essentially still a woman. He was born a woman and that no matter how much surgery and hormonal pills he takes can change that. I especially liked your point about how people can just use the term transgender as an excuse to their sick fantasies and behaviors. I would have to agree with everything you just said, it’s not right and it shouldn’t have been able to get this far. Biologically he is still a she, nothing will change that. -Jaci7429
DeleteIm right with you on this one. i also do believe that it is wrong because god has made you a certain way and we all are boys and girls for a reason. i also agree that you shouldn't be able to change just because of a thought or feeling. we also do see the huge impact it has on our society and i think that it is kind of bogus that we are almost forced to accept these problems even if we dont think its right. overall i agree with you statement and it was well thought out! -ILIKETURTLES012
DeleteThis video was really interesting and I learned some things I did not know. Personally, I thought this all was wrong. I believe that all of it goes against human nature. However, I think that it definitely think it all has a huge impact on society. We saw in the video how must attention the whole situation. Back then that is not something you would see every day and the transgender community had not evolved yet. I also think this almost goes against our societal norms. most of our community would have thought that was wrong a few years back but I think that the acceptance of the whole situation is more popular today then usual. I also think that this is going to have a huge impact on the child as she gets older. Going into school she a high possibility of being bullied. Two things that really frustrated me was when she was explaining her whole reproductive system. Society takes stepping stones into any major change in culture, and at the point in time when this story came to light it was way too big of a step for the transgender movement, and maybe still is. Today, even after acceptance groups, countless protests, and even law reforms, there any many people who are completely opposed to the idea of being able to truly change one’s sexual orientation from the norm. Due to the fact that this video surfaced so long ago most likely explains why the couple felt so threatened and overwhelmed by negative reactions. I do think that there are people that do not think this is right but however, that doesn’t mean that we can be bothered by it. For example, I do not think it all is right but that doesn’t mean that I can’t accept that’s other people’s choices that they want to make. If it isn’t affecting me I’m fine with however you chose to live your life. I thought it was interesting how the processed worked. I thought that they could have made a better choice with purchasing the donor sperm. They could have gone through the actual doctors instead of ordering. I also thought it was interesting how the wife was producing milk. I know that there is medication that she probably took in order to go through it but in my mind, that is also very wrong. We also saw that Barbra Walters reaction was clearly a conservative opinion because of her reaction. She never once even said congratulations when Mr. Mum said that he was expecting another baby. This clearly portrayed the reaction of most of society at that time. Even Mr. Mum was shocked by seeing himself in the mirror because he never thought that he would have a baby as identifying as a man his whole life. Today it has also caught politician’s eyes because there were law in places prohibiting LGBTQ. So, overall situations like these have a huge impact on society today. -ILIKETURTLES012
ReplyDeleteFor starters, I have nothing against gay people I’m a lil gay myself and my sister gay. With that being said me personally I don't think its right nor fair for a transgender person to have a baby. I feel like if she was going to want a baby she should have stayed a woman instead f being 2 genders at one time. Its like he trying to have his cake and eat it to type of thing. Then on top of that I feel like it would have been different if she was just dressing as a boy with girl parts but she got rid of her titles so its like what are you doing why are you doing this. Like if I knew her I would be like why are you trying to have a baby and you want to be a boy. Its a difference between just liking boy clothes and knowing and accepting you are. Girl but getting surgery mean you want to be labeled the other sex and now you want to use different pronouns. Thats how I feel before hand watching the video now I am going to watch the video and elaborate on what I said prior to the video or I may change how I feel. That is so funny they called her a Mr.mu, that really made me laugh to the core. The start of this video caught me by surprise even though the situation is out of the norm I feel like people should give them privacy like come on now they are still humans. For them to say they look like a traditional family I feel like they should address the fact that they are different from the normal traditional family but in their eyes they feel like a traditional family. The traditional family like thy said is male and female, in their case they are female and female and even though that can be a traditional family they should say it like it is. I kind of think this whole male pregnancy thing was for attention, considering the fact he took that pregnancy picture he knew what people would say. I feel like if his wife could not have kids he should of went about it a different way. Then he said he didn't want a stranger to carry his baby but I can understand in a way but I don't agree. I feel like it was not that serious to inject the sperm in him how he did just to have a baby. I feel like he should of had someone else carry the baby. At the end of the day it do not really matter how I feel about the situation because it is not me. I know I be doing a lot of stuff other people do not likes it is just like it is what it is. If they happy I feel like the is all that matter, because if people keep bothering them they gone get depressed. What ever make them happy should make everybody happy because it is their life and not ours.
ReplyDelete~Jolly ranchers
I enjoyed this video. It was definitely different and one of the first ones shown in class that i was genuinely interested in. I would like to start out by mentioning something the subject, Thomas stated during the video that I found compelling. He said, he believed that the mother and father "role" is a role that has been constructed by society. I believe this is true. In our ever-changing and ever-expanding world, we're starting to be introduced to concepts that we are not used to. We are forced to become familiar with the unfamiliar. Which, personally, I think is a good thing for our society as a whole. In our culture, we believe the father is the one who physically doesn't contribute much to the actual child birthing process, since he cannot carry a child or birth it, and he is more so there to give unconditional love and support to mother and baby throughout the rest of their lives. But, Thomas and his family challenges this idea. Born a woman and transitioned into a man, he informs us of one interesting fact that I struggled to understand prior to watching this video. He clearly states that he never felt like the child's mother, even during pregnancy. I think that, for me, without any background knowledge, was the toughest pill for me to swallow. We naturally assume that because he had the baby, he identifies as a woman and considers himself the true mother. Which allows our brains to spin off into a million different directions and think things like will his children grow up confused or disturbed? And how far did they think this through? But, delving into this much deeper, which this documentary so wonderfully allows, tells us this: Thomas and his family's intentions were carefully and meticulously planned and thought through. And, today and for the rest of their lives, they are willing to do whatever it takes to keep their children safe. I see the situation like this: A husband doing whatever is necessary to ensure that his wife is happy. Isn't that a societal idea that we worship and praise? It is. It just so happens that in this case, the husband and wife have very unique circumstances, which a lot of people haven't yet come to accept. We know that Thomas identifies as a man. We know that Thomas' wife could not have children. If Thomas could do something to physically help his infertile wife, why wouldn't he? It would be crazy of him not to, and society just needs to get on board with that. The couple just wanted a family like everyone else. After viewing this video and trying to understand it, I feel like I became a little more open minded. I wouldn't consider myself an ignorant person, but there is a lot I do not know, and I'm sure that goes for a lot of other people. So. I appreciate being given this topic as subject matter because a lot goes on outside of the comfort of our own lives. This is definitely a prime example of cultural lag, which Prof. White talked about in class. I am a firm believer in science and medicine, and if it is advanced enough to allow miracles like this to happen, society needs to catch up and accept it. I think as a society we need to do much better. Transphobia needs to be something that is a rarity and we should become more understanding as a nation. Situations like this are only beginning to surface but it doesn't mean they are going to go away. We need to be better at handling this and accepting it and not even thinking twice when a trans-gendered couple says they want to start a family. I don't believe what Thomas and his wife have done is wrong. Who am I to even say or think that it is? We're all people at the end of the day, and just because something is different doesn't mean it is wrong.
ReplyDeleteHOOTIEGRL012
In recent years this topic has had a major resurgence of relevance in our collective culture with a large movement once again in the LGBTQ+ community. Before I speak on this specific case and the significance in my mind to modern day that it has I would like to first point out that transgenderism has existed in many cultures since the earliest reaches of human civilization. We have records of transgender people in Greece in the time of the city-states. Many different cases including one of the first successful gender reassignment surgery in Denmark. Even in America during the 20s and then again in the 50s the concept was popular. So popular that in the 1950s it become the subject of many exploitation films of the era about men dressing as women and being hermaphrodites. It lost some relevance after the 70s with the resurgence of the nuclear family and of “wholesome” ideals, mostly Christian in theme in America. The 80s did see a big movement for gay men in America with the gay community as a whole being elevated slightly, but all of this brings us back to present day in the last 10 years or so. The LGBTQ+ community has had a rough road leading up to here, but now the marriage of same sex couples is completely legal in all 50 states and they can begin to live lives without fear of persecution, but if this is true...then why is the mere mention of a concept like this, a man giving birth, make the classroom go quiet with nothing butter murmurs. After being egged on we begin to see that many people start sentences with things like “I have no problem with” or “you can do whatever you want” though it seems there is always a ‘but’ at the end. We still find ourselves uncomfortable with this idea in our world for the most part. Thomas Beatie, the man from the video, after coming forward about his pregnancy had to go into hiding for some time due to how uncomfortable the outside attention was making them feel. They received a lot of support, but an equal amount of hate mail. We live in a society where it seems we all agree that progress is good and that we are fighting for s better end goal yet we do not seem to be able to get over these simple hurdles in our mind. That is why a subject like this is fascinating in a sociological perspective, because we see so many agents of socialization at work when people speak about and react to the topic. MAny people in our class wouldn’t outright defy the wishes of Thomas, because our modern ideas vilify someone who puts someone down in that way, yet the traditional view of the world creeps through as see many people tongue tied as they can not quite articulate why it seems wrong to them but they know it does. If you need any greater proof that we are not yet done with positive cultural change it is with things such as this. -twentyfourframes012
ReplyDeleteI like how you mentioned the dates LGBT dates back to. Most people think it is only a this generation thing. The only reason it seems that way is because now a days things are more open and certain situations are becoming more acceptable. As you mentioned incidents of any form of LGBT have been happen for a long time. Back then you just could not be very open about it. I love how you mention everyones "but" at the end. Most believe people have the right to think or feel a certain way BUT this about it is not right. For me I think Beatie has the right to identify as a man but bringing a child and their life into it is my BUT. So it is true most people are only half way for certain situations as such.
Deletegea012
When we first mentioned this in class, everyone including myself were just about against the idea of a transgender man having a baby. I Personally am still against, well not necessarily against but just not with the idea of a man becoming a woman or woman becoming a man. Before watching this video, I was strong in my opinion that what he was doing was not right. After watching the video, I looked at it in a very different perspective. Before I looked at the topic in a black and white perspective. A person born a woman, then deciding to become male and later becoming pregnant was just so backwards to me. It still is, and before watching the video I had many different viewpoints on why he shouldn’t have a baby. One was that, if your wanting to become male and you physically transform your body to do so, then you should not have the mentality that you are wanting to hold a baby for nine months. Secondly, he is married to a naturally born woman, so why not have her carry the child. Third, he shouldn’t be able to experience both sides, he just should not have the luxury to be able to experience pregnancy. Pregnancy is a luxury, it’s a blessing, it’s for woman and woman only. (Not bringing God in to the equation) But if this is how things were supposed to be then it was just be man, and not man and woman. There is a reason why woman was created, and a reason why man was created. We both serve a purpose, a different purpose in life. After watching the video, I still had these same perspectives on why he shouldn’t be able to experience pregnancy. Although, he still is a woman. No matter how we look at it, he was still born a woman. He still has a woman’s sexual reproductive system, no surgery or hormonal pills can change that. That’s when I came to the conclusion that what he is doing isn’t so bad. He is really a she, he just looks like a man. It’s all about or perspective and how we view things. Because he looks like a man and we see him pregnant doesn’t necessarily mean he is a man. He just identifies as one, but he is really still a woman. Now something I still did not quite understand is why his wife had a hysterectomy. This is still a question to me, because most women who get this procedure gets it because they are sure they do not want any more children ever. Unless for health reasons, which was not stated in the video I feel as if this was a backwards decision. I know in the video they said that adoption and surrogate was not an option but why not? That child will still be yours no matter what, a document doesn’t change that. I just felt personally in my very own opinion that there were many other options than this one. Although, I feel that way like I said he is still a she no matter how we put it, he just identifies differently. -Jaci7429
ReplyDeleteThis video was really interesting and I learned some things I did not know. Personally, I thought this went against a lot of what I believe. It goes against human nature in my personal opinion. However, I think that it definitely think it all has a huge impact on society.
ReplyDeleteThe video really clarified the discussion we had in class on Mr. Mum. I found it interesting and kinda disturbing. What Mr. Mum went through like the suicide of his mom and his inability for a couple to bear children are both extremely traumatizing and psychologically altering events. Growing up without a mother left Thomas with a empty void in the development of someone, especially a girl, who does not have a prominent feminine figure to imitate and learn from. In my opinion, I feel for Thomas. It is his choice to do what makes him happy. But if Thomas was born a woman then she's a woman. I don’t really agree with how she is trying to juggle both genders. She is either one or the other. Thomas using the mens restroom really didn’t sit well with me. If your a female, you use the women's restroom. Some people wouldn’t take to kindly for a man to go into a womens room. That is just setting things up for a disaster.
This could potentially mess with a lot of government statistic and could even hinder medical treatment for the person. It would be a sick tool for those sick individuals that prey on both men and women. A predator could easily say that he is a woman or a man today and now has unlimited access to that genders. Who knows what would happen. In all, I feel mixed about the whole story. I’m glad he/she has a healthy baby girl, but the path getting there I don’t entirely agree with.
The other thing that I was surprised about is that at the end of the interview he announced he was pregnant again. This, to me, caused Barba Walter to look just as dumbfounded as I was. He was going through the process of getting pregnant his way all over again.
-CUBSFAN012
When this topic was touched on in class, I feel like it was obvious that nobody felt overly comfortable with discussing it. Personally, I would not have made this decision and i cannot say that I have ever felt the way that Thomas Beatie has felt. I feel that I was born a female and after continuing my life 19 years later, I still identify as a female. I have never experienced a time in my life where I felt like I was being someone I wasn’t or where I felt I should identify as the opposite sex from what I am. However, I can’t speak for everyone else. Thomas mentioned in the beginning how he was forced to participate in feminine events to satisfy his father. Maybe something that occured in his earlier life triggered these feelings or maybe he has just felt like this is entire life. After starting sociology, I feel like my mind has expanded beyond a two sided coin view. WIth that being said, I really am just at a point in my life where I just want to understand why it matters to everyone else what one individual decides to do. American society needs to get real and understand that our country is founded and based off of the practices of freedom. How can you tell people that they are FREE but then ridicule the choices that they have made in their lives? To be honest this is why there are so many issues in the world today. America is so big that as a society we said “forget the unity, lets try to understand the world in categories”.We have tricked ourselves into thinking that the BEST and ONLY way to clearly view the world is by dividing everyone up into groups that they fit in best based on how they look, things they do, things they like, or even how they think. Scratch the labels and see everyone for who they TRULY are and that’s HUMAN. Pink isn’t a girl color, there is nothing wrong with being attracted to your sam sex and there is nothing wrong with someone taking action is their lives to increase their own quality of life. Thomas and his wife's baby was born with no complications and as far as I know and have heard, no harm was done to either the baby or his father so who are we to say that is weird and who are we to frown upon them for making a decision that they felt was best for them. Society has issues with minding their own business. I strongly feel that if you aren't willing to open your mind up to different cultures and views on the world then you have no right to add your two cents in just because you want to. I think that Thomas made the decision that he felt would be beneficial to him and his wife. It is not just for me to say that he should not have carried a child if he transformed into a male. In this situation I feel the actions are justified and even if he wanted to have a baby “just because”, we as a society should respect it and move on. To sum it up, the world would be an easier place to live and be happy in if individuals would stop trying to see the world in black and white. Humans are too complex and there are way too many variable to take into consideration to even attempt to tell others what is right or wrong for them.
ReplyDeleteLayBae012
I always saw this all over the tabloids when I was younger but never understood how it was possible. I remember when I first saw it I was confused but I didn’t think it was wrong. Today, I am a lot older and a lot more mature, but I still don’t think it is wrong. I agree with Beatie when he says that he was born a boy in his brain, that makes sense to me. I support this because myself I feel like a girl and always have felt like a girl, I might have my tomboy moments but ultimately, I know that I feel like a girl. I understand it as simple as that for Beatie, he was just less fortunate in his case. He was born a woman but had always felt like a man. It was only less fortunate than me because what he felt was against the “social norm”. I firmly believe you can be whatever you want to be in life and that includes careers, statuses, and gender. I feel like everyone should be happy and I know for a lot of the LGBTQ community that is something they struggle with. I understand why it is so hard for them, but I wish we lived in a country that accepted people for who they are and more specifically who they feel like they are. You should be fully able to express yourself but sadly I know people are not always going to agree with it. This goes for a man having a baby all the way down to if chocolate cake is the best dessert or not, it is all about opinion. People are entitled to their opinion about Thomas Beatie having a baby, but I think it is perfectly fine. People may say that he had the best of both worlds, but he clearly said in the video that he never felt motherly during his pregnancy. Like our professor says it is not wrong its just culture and opinion. I understand why people are confused why he didn’t have the bottom half of gender reassignment surgery, but I think he makes a good point for this. A penis doesn’t make you more of a man in anyway. Sorry to be crude but it is the same fact for guys born men. A guy with a bigger penis isn’t any more of a man than a guy with a smaller one. I think people also need to take in account that he did this because his wife couldn’t have a child. It wasn’t solely his decision to have a baby just because he wanted to, I see it more like the couple’s decision. Beatie was taking testosterone before he got pregnant, so he fully identified as a man the whole pregnancy. The only reason I feel like people see it as strange is because it is against the social norm. Girls wearing pants was against the social norm for a long time but look how times have changed, its normal and acceptable for girls to wear pants now. Overall, I see nothing wrong with Beatie’s life or his decisions because I feel like it was for his happiness and not publicity.
ReplyDelete-curlyhead012
I would like to say first and foremost that I fully support this persons right to get a sex change operation. I am perfectly alright with this person getting pregnant and having a child. I don't really care what anybody does as long as it doesn't effect me or harm others. I won't say that I think that what these people are doing is wrong or right, but I will defend their right to do it. That is all I really have to say on the matter of this "man" getting pregnant. That said, I do have something to say about transgender-ism and homosexuality that would effect me and other people, and thus I would have a problem with. It is the idea that making people be "accepting" by law would be infringing on my rights. I wouldn't say anything about this, but I have seen several cases in recent years that would infringe on other peoples freedom in the name of acceptance. The first example I would like to bring up is the new Canadian bill that would force a person to use the pronouns that another person identifies as. In my eyes that is a direct violation of the freedom of speech and I have seen several cases of people saying that we should adopt something similar in the US. Next, I would like to say that I think that it is wrong to say that businesses should be required by law to serve anyone for any reason. It is unjust to require a wedding caterer to serve for a homosexual or transgender wedding if they see it as morally wrong. In a capitalistic society like ours, businesses that discriminate against a large portion of the population inevitably can not compete with other companies that don't discriminate. This would eventually leave us with only companies that do not discriminate. I don't think that law should have any hand in these matters.
ReplyDelete-DMPeschy
I love this response! I agree with you whole-heartedly regarding defending their rights to do as they please. And yes, I don’t think that the government should interfere with such things. People should be free to do as they’d like as long as it’s within their rights and they aren’t harming themselves or others. They should be able to live in a way that they feel comfortable. I think people should learn to be more accepting and open-minded regarding these issues. A lot of people are very condescending and degrading in their comments and ill-intended wishes upon others, as pointed out in the video.
DeleteStarlight012
Watching this video, I am doing my best to be objective and not subjective. I think it is wrong that the Beatie family has to live in constant worry of people intruding on their privacy. The social deviance of the family in question is in no way difficult to recognize. Even as I watch the video, I notice that the interviewer does not see Thomas Beatie as a man, and seemed somewhat cynical, asking questions like “does it seem like you’re trying to get it both ways?” This questioning is clearly from a biased standpoint. It is a difficult topic to discuss because people of our society either care too much about the topic when it does not concern them, or they do not care at all and they want to just leave the people be. There are obviously grey areas to that statement, but it is an issue divided in one way basically. I do not think that people should have any sort of say in this matter. If a person who identifies as a male and still has a vagina that properly works, it is an amazing anomaly! It probably happens a lot in the transgender community, but I feel that most of the time the case of this video does not happen. Would Thomas Beatie have gone through with the pregnancy if his spouse could have born children? Who knows. It is not for us to know. I think the way they went about it was actually a very responsible and self sufficient way to have the baby. There would not need to be a surrogate for this situation, and the fact that they made this decision was very good. I think the fact that the Beatie’s were subject to such scrutiny by society is wrong, and the fact that there were people sending this family death threats is disgusting. Let the family live their life, thats what I say. They take great care of the baby obviously, and live happy lives. I do not understand why people feel the need to comment and input on their happiness. This is a question that I wonder about many topics. For example, why do people care that others use drugs or drink alcohol, so long as they are not encroaching upon your right to liberty, who cares. Actually, doing drugs and drinking is actually way more harmful to society as a whole than this Beatie family ever could be, but the fact that this case was so peculiar is why it received so much attention.
ReplyDeleteYoungPlug012
Transgenders are a complicated topic to discuss. Everyone has their personal views, then their objective view. And, as described in class, people have different perspectives and views when approaching these sorts of things. You can view it religiously, socially, culturally, historically, ethically, morally, etc. All vary, and there are no right answers. People are generally accepting of people’s differences, but a great many are not. When it comes to Thomas/Tracy, he felt it was acceptable to become a male. It was what he felt truly in his heart and in his head, and he felt uncomfortable, or not entirely “him”, to be a female (when he was one). Thus, he changed his body to the best of his ability to become a female. I personally feel that from a religious point of view that this is wrong, but if that’s what he feels he wants to do and that’s what makes him happy, then it’s alright. I know a lot of people feel that what he did was unethical and immoral, but I think that, like Thomas pointed out, people are not accustomed or used to the image of a pregnant male. In some other cultures, this could be seen as acceptable, not necessarily supported, but more culturally acceptable. In America, it’s not clearly defined. Because America is based upon the freedoms of its citizens, it doesn’t necessarily have a place to tell someone that what they’re doing within their own rights upon their body is wrong. But, that being said, the people themselves are free to voice their disapproval of such an act. I don’t think I’m in the place to judge people for their decisions on their own body. If he wants to do that and that makes him happy, then so be it. It’s not a decision I would make or feel comfortable with, but I’m a very open-minded and accepting person, so I don’t have any feelings of disgust or such towards people who make these sorts of decisions. To be honest, it’s almost quite the opposite, I think it’s really interesting and fascinating when removing the judgmental aspect of it. The fact that a “man” became pregnant peaked my interest, and I found the video very intriguing. I may not support it, but it was very interesting. I also found his relationship with Nancy very inspiring. I couldn’t help but smile at the end when they told the interviewer that he was pregnant again, her reaction was priceless. But, I also was really happy for the couple. It also shows that regardless of who actually has the baby, it has no effect on the couple’s love for one another, or the actual child herself. Susan was a healthy and happy baby. Even though her father had her, she still has two amazingly loving and caring parents, and that’s all that matters. I also liked that Thomas said that a mother and a father were relative terms. I’d never really thought of that. Anyways, I thought this was really interesting!
ReplyDeleteStarlight012
this video is weird. my stomach is turning, i am almost speechless. we have freedom of our own speech, so without trying to offend anyone i am going to give my straight up opinion. being transgender is sickening and way beyond gods wishes of us as his children. he created to be born with our lives as they should be. she was born a girl because she was supposed to be a girl and not change her ways. she could have easily been considered a transgender without making the whole gender change, getting rid of her boobs, adding testosterone but keeping eggs. This is what disgusted me the most. Why would you be so concerned to look exactly like a man, want to act like a man, but keep the female reproductive system? that to me should be forbidden. many people who change from a women to a man do this to avoid pregnancy or because they cannot see themselves being a woman, having periods, giving birth, etc. The point of her switching to a man was to erase her past as a women, but why is "he" considered a man if he has female reproductive specimen. pregnancy is a god given blessing, some women get that opportunity taken from them, but this women who changed her self to a man still has that right?? not in my eyes. that is utterly disgusting. (wanderer211)
ReplyDeleteI read most of the comments and I did like yours. You said it right forward without faking your thoughts and act as who am I to judge. Thank you for this comment. I agree with all what you said, we as a human being should accept the way we are and act as it. And all women should appreciate the amazing gift that God gave, being able to give birth is the most incredible gift that a human being could have. POINTOFVIEW012
DeleteI love how you didn’t change your opinion for the sake of offending anyone; being straight forward is hard when we really have to worry about not hurting anyone else’s feelings. As a child of God though I do have to ask you, don’t you think God accepts everyone for who they are? MY God would never discriminate against this man, or against this woman for how he truly feels about himself. Personally I believe that God would stand up and applaud this man if he could. What he did takes extreme bravery and self-confidence. I do agree though that being able to give birth is a blessing and no one should take it for granted; and he didn’t. -isitnaptimeyet012
DeleteThis video opened my eyes and thoughts about this situation. When we were talking about it in class I thought it was so stupid and dumb for them to do that and that it made no sense at all for a woman to become a man just to end up having a baby. After watching this, I understand and do not judge them based on their decisions in life. Everyone is born with free will and that free will gives them the ability to do what they feel is right as a person. These decisions people make may seem stupid or unordinary to others but it’s not their lives or their choice to make them. As a Christian I do view this as being wrong though but at the same time I can’t judge. God made everyone in their own unique way and if he would want that individual to be a male rather then a female then he would’ve done so. I feel when people make these decisions to change their gender that they are going against what God has planned and that they are only doing what they want in life which in a way right because people have free will but also wrong because he would’ve gave them the gender they wanted if he had thought it was right. This subject is really hard to talk about because you cant really say what is right and what is wrong because we aren’t God and don’t know what he views as acceptable or what is not acceptable. Life is very precious and we live our lives everyday and we should learn to appreciate what we have and what we were given but sometimes we only think about ourselves and what we want. This video has changed my views on trans genders because we never really know the true meaning of why they did it or what the purpose they have for it. We never will know until we are in the footsteps of others which will never happen. People can wake up the next day and just decide they want to be a man rather then a woman just because they feel like it. The world views this as wrong because of social norms and were just so use to men giving the sperm and the women providing the eggs in order to have babies. Thomas had the baby because his wife was no longer able to have children due to a surgery she had a received and they wanted a baby of their own and not through adoption. What they did was viewed as wrong because it was not a social norm and so everyone judged but in reality Thomas and his wife had a good reason for doing what they did. What stood out to me also was that Thomas’s wife started lactating which never happens unless a woman goes through the stages of child development so I feel God gave here this ability so that she could bond with her child the way she wanted to. Mrbubby012
ReplyDeleteI heard about this story before, but I’ve never had the courage to see this story and follow it on the social media. Not because I don’t care but also that I recognize it as a type of extreme deviance that I absolutely don’t and will not accept it. This is not something about Thomas and Nancy and their decision to have a baby! Thomas who is a woman and still decided to transferee into a man because as he said he is biologically male but, in his mind, and when he wakes up in the morning he feels like a man! And to achieve his mind goal he decided to take testosterone, male hormone, cut his hair short and had her breast remove to make look like a man. And then be in a relationship with a lesbian, and then they decided to have a family and have kids! The beginning of this world was by two people Adam and Eve, Why! Because God created men and women with a different reproductive system and together be able to have babies that generation after generation after generation is becoming the world that we live in with those people. God is not creating creature randomly, but God is having a unique system that no one in this entire world could do the same way he did. The messengers over the time have had a message from God which is to help people believe in God among time with different passengers. So those messages were transferred from one generation to another according to the religion that those specific groups were practicing. And by doing those stuff is saying that we as a human being instead of using our mind to improve the quality of the life, help others, find ways to develop our selves, etc. we use it to change the world in an inappropriate way. We now support the transformation of people into an alliance and not helping our soldiers who are dying in unstable countries because of a politician! We are losing the peaceful world by saying that we don't care as they are happy and not affecting us. which on the other hand is having a direct effect but we don't say it out loud we keep it for our selves and hope that no one in the family does this unacceptable behavior. We always say things we don't believe or accept because it's inappropriate to show your feelings to others. Raising kids who have two fathers or two mothers and now the mother who has a short hair and a mustache marrying other women consider herself a male getting pregnant, film it, and ask from people to open their eyes! My question is the kids that they have now, what is their future? Are they going to take the same way that their parents did? What about the community that now accepting this. Is it considering a healthy one! For people who say they don’t care. Are you going to do it in the nearest future and let your kids do that? We all should care and we all should stop that violence this is extremely wrong, and the world is just getting worst by accepting these behaviors and letting them pass through the generation under the term of Who I am to judge! I am part of the community that I am dying every day to support myself and my family and be able to provide a healthy environment for my kids when they grew up. But, who I am to judge! POINTOFVIEW012
ReplyDeleteI personally could never imagine doing such a thing, but I believe people who feel as if they are not meant to be the gender they are can not help it. I think most do not one day decide they want to be the opposite sex I think they always have felt out of place in their own skin and eventually figure out ways to feel best. Feeling best for them is being the gender they are not. I do not care what they do, if being a certain gender that they are not makes them happy then so be it. Also if Thomas Beaty wanted to have a baby even though he identifies as a man I do not mind. The one thing I do mind is the child. If him being the "pregnant man" was not so publicized I would not mind. The fact this was publicized I do not want the child to be known as the "pregnant mans child". I think if the mom and dad acted to the child that the mom had her and that Thomas Beaty is her dad until she reaches a very mature stage. If Thomas and his spouse were okay with the publicity this had is what concerns me. If that were me I would have kept it under wraps not because I am ashamed of who I am but for my childs sake. It is not fair if the kid grows up confused on why other kids did not come from their dads stomach. Once people like that start having kids then I believe trasgender or gay people will actually be like that from birth and it will begin to be learned. If this kid knew all growing up my daddy had me and my mommy did not then he views that as the right way to do it. Then he will be some sort of LGBT not from day one but as a learned trait. One person is not concerning but if there were more people doing this then I would begin to become concerned. Anyone can identify as whatever gender they want until it can effect someone elses without the person having a say AKA the childs. For them to let his pregnancy be so publicized it shows they also may have wanted something from it, the attention, money, or mini fame. I just do not agree on the way they went about it seems fishy to me. Not against the way he feels though, I respect the way he feels most comfortable. The good thing is that it is his life and he has the right tho choose the way he wants to live. I probably should not have that much if an input on it I am only concerned about the ways it would effect the baby.
ReplyDeletegea012
This was one of those videos where I was left stunned and speechless. When transgender first became a thing, I didn’t agree with it nor did I find a reason for it and to this day I feel the same way. This video completely blew me mind. I don’t agree with it but furthermore my religion doesn’t. I believe God made you who he wanted you to be and that’s that. I don’t agree with changing your gender because you were put on this earth for a purpose just the way you are. I feel like why change that? For Thomas, I remember in the video him mentioning how his mother passed and his father made him start modeling and he did not see himself as beautiful. In my opinion, she was pretty, and I don’t feel like she had to change herself. I actually witnessed a situation like this one. Growing up, at church I knew a girl that felt she was unattractive through her teenage years. She would say very little and walk with her head down all the time because she was insecure. Often times she would even get bullied. A few years ago, she changed her gender because of this situation. She got married to another woman as well. I feel situations like this could be prevented if people were not put down so much. Everyone tries to get the satisfactory from society instead of believing in their selves and doing what they feel is right. Also, I feel society has made the whole transgender thing feel like another social norm. That is why I feel plenty of people are coming out and they are not feeling bad about it anymore. I remember people used to be scared to come and say if they were gay. Now, it is just like people do not think twice about it they just decide to do it and go for it. I don’t like to talk down badly on them because we may not always their background. The reasonings I have heard in the past are similar to the one I shared above. They seem to always have to do with people having low self-esteem. This story was just very different. After listening to the mom say that once Thomas became pregnant her body started to change. She began to lactate so that she could breast feed her babies. I thought it was interesting to hear how they bought the syringe from the pet store and how the sperm got put into him. I never thought I that I would hear a story like this one. I know it’s an extreme eye opener for the older people. My grandparents tell me that these types of things were unacceptable in their time. I just think it’s crazy how social norms change over the years. There are many things that are okay now that were not years ago. All in all I don’t agree with this but I feel you have to be careful with how you comment on these things.
ReplyDeleteprettygirlhd012
We initially began the conversation about this topic in class on Wednesday. The original picture definitely shocked me because I was not expecting someone who looks like a man to be pregnant with a child. A huge part of me still has a hard time fathoming what truly goes through a transgenders mind. As it stands biologically, with what is going on in the mind set aside, you are born with either male or female parts. There are rare cases in which a person is born with both parts, but for the most part you are either one or the other. In my opinion, if someone is getting pregnant and then giving birth to a child, then they are a woman. As far as this goes, I do not personally agree with it. I have never had thoughts about wanting to change my gender, so I can’t truly day I understand how a person like that truly feels. I can say that I believe in keeping the gender I was born with. This being said, I do also believe that it is not my life. A person can choose to do whatever they want with their life. I won’t tell them how to live their life because it is their choice. If this was something that could put the baby’s life at risk, then I would definitely say that it is not okay. For example, the different in the medications that the person is initially taking before the pregnancy has such extreme effects on her body and its makeup that there is a very good chance it could affect the baby in some way, shape, or form although I do not know this for sure because I am not a doctor. If no risk is posed to the child then I believe that it goes back to the couple’s decision because it is their life and in no way affects anyone else but themselves. I do agree with the commentator to an extent when she asked if he was only doing this so that he could have the best of both worlds because to an extent he is. He is calling himself a male and reaping all the benefits of that while still taking advantage of the fact that he was biologically born a woman. It could be argued that he is not doing this, and that the only reason that he chose to give birth was because his wife could not. At the end of the day, the only person that knows what his true intentions is him. If they are not doing anything that is illegal under the laws of our state and country then they can do whatever they want as far as giving birth. It could also be stated that they may possibly be doing this for attention now at this point. If this was all about just wanting a baby, they would not have continually been staying in contact with the media. This whole process has made them famous in a sense, giving them a lot of attention. Like I said though, in the end it’s ultimately their choice. (Patriots012)
ReplyDeleteTo me, I didn’t really hear anything about transgenders up until the big Caitlyn Jenner scandal. I personally don’t agree with this. I don’t want to sound like an asshole (pardon my language) but I feel that if you are born with a penis, you’re born a male. If you are born with a vagina, you are born a girl. I don’t see how people say they are born male but deep inside they are female or the same vice versa. I mean I’m not going to hate you just for that. It is your decision and your life. If you’re cool with me I’ll be cool with you. I do feel bad for all the hate that Thomas and his family got from other people. You have to have something wrong with you to wish death upon someone because that’s just pure evil. I am concerned about the kids and how they will be treated in the real world because its full of haters and evil. I did some digging in this story because I found it interesting. I was shocked when I found out how many kids Thomas was able to have. Not one, not two, but three kids. Towards the end of the video, the interviewee brought up a good point. When she brought up if Thomas considered himself the child’s father or the mother. He said the father. Then I thought how could you consider yourself a father, if YOUR eggs were used which are part of the females reproductive system? And before I knew it she hit that point as well. I could see the hesitation look in Thomas’ face like “Oh shit, I didn’t think about it like that.” She had a valid point in my opinion because the eggs do belong to the female’s reproductive system and sperm or seamen belongs to the male’s reproductive system. When this was brought up in class, I was surprised to see and hear how many people were against it. Everyone was entitled to their own opinions and I did agree with some of the points that were brought up from that discussion. I can get religious and say that god made us the way he wanted us to be and live. He doesn’t want us to alter or change ourselves in any way shape or form. It is kind of hypocritical because in a way some of us have altered or changed the way we look. Whether it would be a tattoo, scar, or a piercing. Now I can look at it from both point of views but I side more with the “men are men and females are females” point of view. That’s how I think it should be. It is sad though because while I read deeper in the story, I found out that he was divorced form Nancy which was Thomas’ wife. But soon after, he met Amber from Thomas’ kid’s school. This was pretty interesting all around for me but I will still support my opinion about the whole situation.
ReplyDelete-Chewbacca012
I will be brutally honest- I made myself a pretty stiff drink before watching this- yes, I am over 21 and no, I am not an alcoholic. I just knew that before watching this video, I was already feeling my temperature rise and my firm beliefs coming out for debate. I survived watching the video and my blood is not boiling. I do not feel hate, but I do concede to say that they have no right- I still feel they should not have done this, nor should they have been allowed. I am not ignorant in my ways of thinking that people more often than not will do what they wish with their own bodies and lives- I would never wish that we as a nation, would allow the government to dictate what we are allowed to do with our own bodies. I believe it’s a personal choice and in the end, if it doesn’t/didn’t affect me or my family personally, no matter what you did, then it’s none of my business and I am not to be an exception to judge, either. It is hard to write this as I know I am contradicting myself without trying to. I, just like Thomas’s wife, love what’s inside of a person- appearance does not matter to me. Thomas states “I am not trying to change people’s minds, just open them”. My mind is open, but I still have my beliefs and my convictions. Removing your sexual reproductive organs doesn’t make you anymore of a man or less of a woman states Thomas- of which I totally agree. Having had to undergo a radical total hysterectomy when I was 24, it was devastating to me to know I would never be able to have another child, but it did not make me feel any less of a woman. I did not have my breasts removed because there was not a need, nor has there been a need to date to do so. I do have several girlfriends who have had to have their breasts removed due to cancer or to even prevent cancer from invading. All but 1 has had breast reconstructive surgery. Without their breasts, they did not feel any less of a woman, it was just the vainness of it- of which is totally acceptable!! So if he says that about the reproductive organs, why go all the way and remove your breasts but not have gender reassignment?? I feel like they together, are ‘playing God’. The most shocking of all was that they purchased sperm over the internet and inseminated him themselves!! Really??? Just so many things wrong with that- I don’t even know where to begin. Again- I am not being hateful- as they both said “there is a lot of hate in the world and a lot of crazy people”. For the last part of the statement of a lot of crazy people- that definitely warrants another Really!!???! Touché…I feel so super bad for the babies- they are getting death threats and being called an abomination. The babies did not choose how they were conceived or how they brought into this world and who they are being raised by. I feel it’s way more acceptable to be raised in same sex households- almost to the point that it’s pretty commonplace. I am actually all for that. Babies and kids deserve all the chances, attention, love and opportunities they can get. I absolutely hate that there are orphans and homeless children that need good homes with loving parent(s). Why could they not have done this in the first place??? The one already had 2 biological children and did Thomas care to have his own?? If he did, he should have remained a female. If he was indifferent, then why didn’t they adopt??? I know one of the two wanted a biological child, but come on now- isn’t there enough selfish tendencies going on in this relationship?? So many questions left like how did the wife that didn’t carry the pregnancy lactate and is now breastfeeding? How does this happen and how did Thomas not feel maternal carrying that pregnancy for 9 months??? So many things wrong in this scenario!!I believe in God and I believe God created the female for the male and vice versa. I do not believe in passing judgment, I just have my beliefs and am allowed to have them as well as state my opinions. I do not believe anyone should alter God’s gifts and learn to live and like yourself the way you were born. -TRM012
ReplyDeleteI agree with so many of your points here. I agree that babies and children should get all the chances and not be judged based on their parents and their parents decisions. I also agree with the point you made about homeless childrena nd orphans who need to be adopted because that is a big issue in our world today. I believe he also should have remained female if he wanted to have his own biological children. I like how you made your statement saying that you are not judging, because I too believe that judging is God's role, but that you have your own beliefs and that you are entitled to them ad to your opinions.
Delete- mommaj'skid012
The first time I watched this video I had to pause every once in a while just to get the facts straight and wrap my head around the whole thing. In my opinion they are a traditional family. There is a woman who identifies himself as a man, a woman, and a baby girl. It may not be “normal” but what even is normal anymore? We think things are normal just because we were raised to believe in those certain things and that it can ONLY be that one way but in reality every single person is different and there is no right, wrong, or normal way to do things. This is 2018, people are going to do whatever they want regardless of the opinion of others, especially when those opinions come from people the family does not even know or have close ties with.. Thomas was spot on when he said the terms “mom” and “dad” are just social terms. Who are you and I or anyone for that matter to tell this man he cannot be called “dad” just because he was the one who gave birth? People like this give me so much hope for a more open minded future and will hopefully have children who will change the world! Not necessarily to think as they do but to just be more accepting towards everyone in our culture and in other cultures as well.
ReplyDeleteThe woman interviewing Mr. Mum and his wife really bothers me. She’s trying her hardest to bring him down and can’t even be happy for the family in the slightest bit especially at the end when he announces his second pregnancy. People like that woman make me sad for the world we live in. We are so accustomed to thinking one way and having such a strong opinion on how others live their lives, it’s heartbreaking. What happened to worrying about yourself and not others? Why are we so quick to judge instead of trying to understand?
I really love how Thomas says that he feels as if one is not born a man, but that they become a man. He says he used his female reproductive organs to become a father. He explains that his female reproductive organs don’t make him any less or more of a man than if he had a penis and although I don’t actually agree with that 1000%, he gave me a new look on that part of life and it challenges my thoughts on that subject which is really cool.
Thomas’ wife is awesome! “I don’t like labels, I’m just in love with this person” was her response to people who claim her and Thomas are still lesbians.
This couple is not hurting anyone, they’re not shoving their way of thinking down anyone’s throats, they simply want to be accepted for who they are and want people to open their minds and at least try to understand that everyone is different but were all here together just trying to live our best life.
-isitnaptimeyet012
As I watched this video for the first time, there were many things that surprised me. I first want to clarify, that even though this is something that I would not partake in and could never see myself doing, it is not hurting me in any way so I do not really care about what they do, but it bothers me slighty. On the other hand, I was very surprised to learn that they went into hiding for a little while considering they seem to be very open and proud and not ashamed of who they are or what they did. I get that the media and people can be hurtful, but if you believe that you did nothing wrong and you believe it is normal, do not hide! They see themselves as a traditional family, which I do not totally agree with because in the past of the human race, a traditional family is mom, dad, kids and mom is who gave birth. Thomas believes that you are not born a man. He believes that you become a man. He talked about how he got psychological testing that said he identifies as a man. At what point in a person's life do they become a man? I am a little confused on how he was prominent in being a man and wanted to be one, so he had surgery to remove his breasts and began taking testosterone, then stopped. Stopping his testosterone would begin to make him female again in the physical way which is what he wanted to get away from since he never said he felt pretty in his body. He than became pregnant which is normally the females role in life. He said he never got the maternal feeling during or after his pregnancy and refers to himself as his baby's father. At the time of this video, he tells the talk show host that he is pregnant again. The last point I want to make refers to Thomas not changing his sex organs. He said that his appearance and sex organs do not make him a man or a woman, but he got his breasts removed. Maybe i am misundertanding what he is trying to tell his audience, but that it how I interpreted his message. My opinion of this whole thing is that I would never do something like this and I do not understand why they could not have adopted a child? There are many kids out there who need loving parents and a place to call home. I know plenty of people who were not able to have children, so they adopted and they are living very happy and healthy lives and so are their adopted children. I wonder and worry about the child. Growing up, you always learn about how "you came from your mom." These kids are going to be taught the opposite at home. I can definitetly see how that could confuse the mids of small children. I would never think of doing something of this sort, I would look at other options that I have.
ReplyDelete- mommaj'skid012
I love this kind of thing. Cases like this forces me to open up my mind to unordinary and different things. Although im very open minded im having a slight issue with this video. I showed my mother this video and she completely over reacted, like it was one of her own children making this type of decision. My mom only acted the way she acted toward this video because of her religion. I told her she needs to be open minded to things like this. I told her not everybody thinks or have the same mindset as our family. And she is still fighting me tooth and nail on this subject. But as i watch this video i had to pause several times to wrap my head around some of the facts. I actually watched the video like four times. And i have different views on the video
ReplyDeleteFirst i love transgender people i feel like they know what they want for themselves. Just like this man. He knew as a young teenage girl that this was not him necessarily. He said he never felt he was a pretty girl. But him knowing his own self i think is great. Then he was able to find someone out there who love him for him and not because he was male or female thats too is great. I think it is very troubling that the couple had to go into hiding because of death threats and things of that nature. That proves people are not open minded and not willing to adapt to change and different. I think it is awful how many negative comments the couple got. The fear of the unknown definitely influence society in avery negative way.
Bouncing off of the fact that thomas mother passed. Not having that mother role in his life as a young girl could be extremely damaging to his psych. Growing up without a mother could have left a void in his development. And that can go for anyone. So maybe that has part in why he made the decision that he made.
Where i stand in this whole ordeal is that, im not for nor against Mr. Thomas decision. Because naturally how i was raised, i would think NO! He is wrong or this decision god created you as a man or women nothing in between. I would think its not right to change your body the way he did then on top of him wanting to be a man and the bearing a child is crazy. But on the other hand i feel as if im pretty open minded to most things and the decision he made to become a man was for himself. As for every transgender they know themselves and they know who or what they want to be. And in the video Thomas said he only got pregnant because his spouse could not. So it not like he woke up and said i want to shock the world and become a pregnant man. He did it for the comfort of his family.
-cheese012