I liked this scene in the movie because I had never seen this argument portrayed on side of the child. As a parent it’s true that sometimes we think that we own our children, and that everything we do for them they should be ultimately grateful and obedient. But, the reality is that they did not choose to be here; we did bring them into the world and therefore it is our responsibility to do everything in our power to make them independent, upstanding members of society. Often times this is not the case and we do become dead weight on them, voicing our opinions in a changing world that we no longer understand. My son is only in elementary school and I can already see the difference in his generation compared to mine, and those differences make it hard to connect and be able to understand some of the things he deals with on a day to day basis. I am glad our society is not a society where we unquestioningly revere the elderly; we still hold them accountable for their actions and opinions and I believe that every person should earn my respect individually no matter what age they happen to be. If this movie was set in a culture where you always listen to your elders because they are older and wiser…I don’t think this story, or their romance would have gotten too far. The fathers would say their piece and everyone would go their separate ways. Especially if this movie had been a family that was even more patriarchal. Husbands did seem to get the last say but at least they took into consideration how their wives felt about the situation before they made decisions.
I like how you connected this situation to how it would have went down if the movie was based on a different culture. I completely agree with what you said would be the outcome if it was different. I think that it is important to note what this scene says about our culture. I don’t think that John was meant to come off as rebellious towards his father in this scene, but rather well educated despite the age difference. Younger people seem to make their communication more direct in terms of how it relates to the actual issue. Old people were forced to think superficially their whole lives and that ends up blinding from being able to think deeper than what they have before LayBae012
I like the reference of how your sons generation is so different from your own. I agree. It's insane what difference a decade or two in life makes. I have a 7 year old niece and their hip dance crazes are nothing like the hip dance crazes I grew up with. I have a 27 year old cousin who remembers the twin towers being destroyed and I have seriously no recollection of it happening. Like, I know these scenarios seem redundant and irrelevant but they are just little things I notice about the different generations and how growing up during one time period is completely different from growing up 10 years earlier or 10 years later. Society is always changing, the world is always changing. Ideas respected mutually by one generation are not always ideas respected by another.
I like how you used your own son's generation as a example. The differences you see with just a few decades is quite eye opening. Its weird to think that in 50 years what our kids or grand kids will be doing in their world. I think of society as living thing that is always growing and trying new things. I await what these next generations bring to the table. -CUBSFAN012
I am glad that some parent said it because mine sure didn't. The fact is while it is true that we, as children, should be obedient to our parents, there comes a time when children become independent. They want to go off on their own and do the things they want. Parents and the elderly at that point, i believe, are guides and should not dictate to the former child as to what to do exactly but should be given the freedom to make mistakes and learn from it. -TheMarshall012
I'm glad I could hear this from someone who was a parent and get their side of it because I know and really understand the view of John because I don't have any kids. I think that there is a time, it might not be the same for everyone, that a kid that depends on his parents then becomes an adult and makes decisions by theirselves. I think I am in that middle stage of still respecting my parents and taking their opinions into consideration but I don't base my choices off of their opinions. The difference is that John is 37 and I am 18, so I feel like his father and his opinions are essentially dead weight on John and that his dad needs to realize that he's old enough to make and deal with the consequences of his own decisions.
This scene from the movie was extremely moving for me. I'm sure all of us have had this type of conversation with our parents and if not, congrats so far but it can still come. However, I think that the reason it had such an effect on me would have to be because what John said to his father is something that I and many others may had struggled with explaining to our parents for years. In this scene, it’s important to note the thirty year age difference between Dr. Prentice and his father and how this affects the conversation being held. I think that when Mr. Prentice shot back at John when he told him to shut up, it highlighted his expectations for his son. He has the mindset of entitlement with his position as John’s father. He will be respected and listened to because of all that he has done for him in his life.I feel like this is true for many older people. They think that they have the right to manipulate and control our behavior since we are younger than them. I really like John’s part out of the whole scene. I completely agreed with him when he stated that older people try to force the younger generations to conform with what worked for them and it just won’t work for us. I think that this statement makes the current societal organizations and structure look really weak in terms of effectiveness. WE CAN DO BETTER and CHANGE IS GOOD. I think that it is fair to say that older individuals have a hard time with accepting change due to being socialized throughout their lives. It is significant to note that in this scene, the dad used his age as validation for why he was right and his son was wrong. I think that once we as a society face the fact that change is necessary and good for many reasons, we can start changing the expectations and standards that our older and younger generations have towards one another. LayBae012
It is interesting how you mentioned that Mr. Prentice justified his actions by simply using his age. I believe that our society relies a whole lot on the age of someone to justify their actions. Many times, in American culture, we take the age of someone to be the single “explanation” need to rationalize our own thoughts. We do not need anything more! For example, many people associate teenagers with being the most deviant category of people. So, when a teenager does something wrong, even though it may or may not be wrong under the law, the deviant act is somehow justified because they are a teenagers and their brain is still developing. We associate many acts we commit in this way, just based on the norm of society. Because there is somehow a norm about what we do and how we do things in different stages and at different ages in life, we sort of justify a certain act as right or wrong in this way. MySliceofthePi012
I agree that this is a very relate able scene that shows both sides. It is hard to say that ether side is totally in the right because while the son should be thankful to his father, his father seems to think that that somehow means that his son owes him something for it even though he is the one how brought him into the world. DMPeschy
I was actually shocked when we were through watching this film in class because it was one I actually enjoyed and could see myself watching again during my free time. I feel like a lot of valuable lessons are brought up here and brought to light. This clip from the movie in particular brings up a lot of interesting points. Here we are shown a father, aged and wise. Who believes that white people in today’s age are the same as the white people he grew up with. Which of course, isn’t entirely true. We know that in this movie we were past the civil rights movement according to said timeline. Which means, segregation was no more, and black people were becoming accepted members of society for the first time. The father, who is 30 years older than the son didn’t grow up in the same society. He and anyone their color was not accepted by the white community. They were treated as less, nonhuman so to speak, and unfairly and poorly. Now, no, things aren’t all sunshine and roses in the son’s generation, but they are better. Allowing him to look at marrying a white woman as something that isn’t completely unrealistic. Clearly society was evolving and they were portrayed as some of the first to think about interracial marriage. Personally, I can see both sides. I understand the fathers hesitance and resistance to willingly accept the sons proposition. White and black communities were kept separate for hundreds of years, and the divide was never something to be proud to be apart of. But on the son’s side, people are changing, becoming more open and loving, why shouldn’t he be able to love who he wants? Why should skin color even matter anymore? Making a fuss about it, to him, seems ignorant because then you’re just playing a part in keeping the segregation of black and whites. But to the father, he hasn’t yet forgiven the white people from the society he knew best. And I can understand why the characters had such an interesting debate.
I really liked this scene a lot in the movie. There was a lot of weight and tension when the son’s dad brought him into talk. You could tell by the expressions on their faces they were both concerned with each other. I think that when the dad scolded John when he told him to shut up, it showed John what he wanted from him. He has the mindset of entitlement with his position with being John’s father. He thinks that, in my opinion, that John is still to young to understand his generation’s thought process. Older generations think that they have the right to manipulate and control our behavior since we are younger than them which is sad. I liked how John said that older people try to force the younger generations to conform with what worked for them and that it just won’t work for him. Overall I thought this was a very powerful scene that used all the built up tension from the movie and threw it all into this scene. This is a movie I definitely see watching again due to the fact that it might of been made in 1967, but I feel the message still rings loud in today’s society. -CUBSFAN012
This scene was incredible interesting for me and, I dare say it was my favorite scene in the whole movie. For the concept off ageism, this scene was an amazing scene for it because it do not only shows the argument of the elderly but it also has a compelling argument for the side of the younger generations. As a member of the younger generation, I feel his pain when he confronts his father on the issues at hand. The issues do not always have to be as important as marriage as the movie explained to us. The problems change as time goes on. I personally believe that my parents do not understand the problems of today as I am sure I will not understand the problems of tomorrow. I believe that all generations have the problem of ageism. An example I can say I have at home is that school is easy and we should be flying through it. The older generations also forget that we learn new things every day and that things are added to the curriculum that were not there before and things that were there have gotten harder or more complicated than they once were. On the military side, some of the older guys would say that “back in his/her day…” but modern challenges are just as hard as challenges of the past. The argument he make to his father is one that ever teenager and young adults want to say but usually never do. It is not that we hate the older generation and I am sure they do not hate us but we do not understand the challenges we both faced and are facing in our different time periods. These things can bee school, money, relationship, or, in the case of the modern day, who gets the TV. –TheMarshall012
With generations constantly changing, I agree with when you said that the older generation does forget we learn new things each day and that they may not understand the problems we may e facing because of how society has changed so much. It's hard for generations to fully relate to one another and I think the clash between generations will always stay prevalent because new problems may arise in mine that are different than my parents, or vice versa, they may have been going through something troubling for them as a teenager but is a breeze now for me because of technology advancing even. gea012
I totally agree with your stamen. We still go through the problems they did back then. We still have problems with the older generations because some of them dot understand what we have to go through. However, we also don't understand what they can be upset about. Which is why our generation bumps heads with the older ones. Like you said it doesn't always have to be about marriage either. It could also be able school or money. For example, once we get older and start having responsibilities they sometimes can't understand how we can't afford thigs like gas and bills because things were cheaper back then.-ILIKETURTLES012
When we discuss ageism, we typically talk about the prejudice and discrimination of the older population, but the definition just states that ageism is simply prejudice and discrimination of people based on age. John treated his father somewhat rudely, especially when he mentioned that until his father’s whole generation is dead that the dead weight of them would remain. This may be based on the fact that John is closer to the prime of life where he is supposed to have power and have achieved many of his goals, whereas his father is aging and as we as Americans view it losing independence and power. I think based on the definition, ageism does not only go one way, with discrimination toward older individuals. In my opinion, Mr. Prentice could and did show slight ageism toward his son. Due to the fact that there is a thirty-year difference between Mr. Prentice and John and that Mr. Prentice is becoming older (67-years old) he, like many older people may be jealous of the younger generation of that of his own son. He may have a preconceived opinion based on how he was raised and how he lived his life when he was John’s age. Mr. Prentice basically tells John how he needs to live his life, but where ageism kind of comes in is if Mr. Prentice tries to say John owes him for everything he did to provide for him and essentially tells him how he should live his life. Where this borders on ageism is if parents demand that they be repaid for their efforts in raising their child, and the obligation for the child gets in the way and negatively impacts them. Although this situation is not as serious as the situations we see for the elderly population, I think ageism in all forms exists now as it existed back then in the 1960’s. We as people need to values all lives, and treat everyone fairly because we all bring something different to the table. MySliceofthePi012
I like your post because I enjoyed reading how you felt and viewed how John talked to his father. You felt that he was approaching his father with how he talked about his father’s generation that it is was dead weight. I agree that he was somewhat rude but I also, feel as if what he said was partly true and that it had to be said eventually. -IDK123012
I think in this clip of the movie ageism was showed both ways. Typically, ageism is prejudice against the older generation of people but in this situation, it goes both ways. At first Mr. Prentice’s speech started off not prejudice but as he talked more and more he referenced to how ungrateful his son was for all the things that him and his wife did for him. He basically said that he made John into the man he is today. While that might be true, John did a lot for himself to become a doctor with as much prestige as he has. The father, in all, makes a point that at his age his son doesn’t realize/appreciate all that they have done for him as parents. On John’s side of the argument, he definitely expresses ageism. He says that he is very different than his father especially being 30 years younger than him. The most intriguing thing John says is that his dad’s generation is so stubborn and think their way is the right way and will deny all other ways until they’re dead in the ground. This says a lot about both generations in this argument. I see how both of them think they are right in their own way but need to open up and understand each other’s point of view to solve this problem. I feel like John shows a lot more of ageism to his father’s generation than Mr. Prentice to his son’s generation. Mr. Prentice’s view on the situation is actually more centered around himself and his reputation. He understands that his son and soon to be wife will have problems with race but he is more worried about how it will ruin his son’s life therefore wasting his own time and money that he has put into his son for the last 37 years. -curlyhead012
I agree with what you said and my response was pretty similar to yours. I agree that both are right in their own way and that the generational gap has a major influence on how they feel, act and respond to one another. I do feel that both are lacking respect for the other and need to find common ground. I do know that back then, it was not common to have a tight bond with your father- it was just how it was. However, I got the sense that this was a bit different. Both families seemed to be of upper middle class and were a bit more refined in such a way that the family unit was a bit more functional. Love is there from both perspectives and I was relieved to at least see that. TRM-012
In the video ageism both ways I think that it shows how parents install things into children and try to bring their kids up of the ways that they are accustomed to. There isn’t anything wrong with this as long as they are teaching the right things to the child and doing the best they can. I think that when the father went on about how and what he had to do for his son was a good thing and he should feel as if he accomplished and raised a good son, but as the son mentioned those were things that he was supposed to provide. Yes the father made sure he was well taken care of and made sure his son was given a good education but the thing the father should remember is that it was his choice to bring his son into the world and with that as the son said these are all things one must do as a parent anyway. As a child starts to see the world for their self, they began to see that everything their parents told them may not be the way that it actually is. Some of the things that children are taught is how the parents were brought up and things that they may have encountered in their life time that makes them feel a certain way about different matters. The son put in the work and time to go to school and become a doctor and an important person in society yes he would not have been in this position if not for a caring family but he himself had to overcome the obstacles that were in his path to become what he was in life. Parents all want their children to be successful but shouldn’t force their child to become who that want them to become or even who they should fall in love with as long as they are happy they should just give the support to their child. Just me 012
When this scene came up I was surprised to see the son speak up to his dad the way he did. I mean I would never in a million years raise my voice like that to my parents. Granted if what I was trying to tell them or get them to understand was important to me then I would stand my ground and let them know. Other wise I would have just saw their side of the story and agreed to what they wanted and not what I wanted because I believe that my parents know what is best for me and only want me to succeed. Though there is a point of time in life where you have to show and let your parents know you are an adult and you make your own decisions and that they can tell you want to do but because you do not live under their roof with their rules does not mean you have to follow what they tell you to do. Most parents tell their kids all the lives that they have to stand up for what they believe in but when it comes to the child standing up to the parent about what they believe in the parent is taken by surprise. They usually come to a realization that, that is how they taught their child to handle situations and they can look back on it and be proud that it was something the child grew up to use and understand in their own life and be appreciative that what taught was valuable. Overall even though it caught me by surprise I’m glad that he spoke how he truly felt to his father and expressed he thoughts on how he felt his father was acting, it was a nice touch to movie. -IDK123012
This scene surprised me as well. I didn't think that John was going to say that to his dad. That is an interesting situation that happens, when you do what your parents told you to do and stand up for what you believe in but they cant get behind that idea because it wasn't theirs. Its apart of the normal life cycle I believe. We have all had this situation at one point in time whether we were right our wrong.`pj012
Ageism both ways for sure!! Ageism is prejudice or discrimination on the basis of a persons age. Owe or own… Neither owns the other, but both owe each other. John says that until his fathers whole generation is dead and buried, the weight of them won’t be off him and his generations backs. I feel that is showing extreme ungratefulness. Yes, nobody has the choice of being born into this world. However, the son owes his father respect and his father owes him respect as well. John also needs to give his father the benefit of getting to know him on a real and personal level if he truly feels that his father knows nothing about him. His father (and mother) obviously wanted nothing but the best for him if the mother went without so many things just as his father walked 75,000 miles for his job. This is what parents to for their children- that is the parents responsibility. But on the flip, John also needs to be thankful for all he had due to his parents working so hard for him so he wouldn’t do without as well as could study in college instead of work straight out of high school. There needs to be common ground and full understanding as well as respect from them both. The father thinks he and his generation did it better while the son thinks he and his generation will do it better. A general consensus and unspoken agreement is what we all should succumb to and just accept the fact that there are certain ways we are to be/act with our parents/children. It’s the sign of the times and it’s the way the world evolves. What’s lacking is a mutual respect and thankfulness- but the love is there. You can most certainly tell that love is thick with John and his father, but the understanding of one another has not yet quite been developed and connected. TRM-012
I totally believe that what both generations were doing was shortsighted. Both were only thinking of ways to more benefit them and their ideals. What they needed to do was to look beyond these simple concepts and think of each other. John should not have tried to hide his girlfriend and shy away from meeting her parents same as Joey should not have assumed that parading around and acting entitled wasn’t going to start some bad blood between the families. An easy middle ground could have been achieved had they simply been more considerate to the family. -twentyfourframes012
I think that it is fair to say that in this film a fair bit of bad feelings are shared both ways between the generational gaps. In the beginning it almost seems as if Joey’s parents were going to be able to accept the proposition made by John and their daughter, but they slowly circum to fear, especially her father much more so than the mother. They assumed that the two were just naive and did not fully understand the consequences that would follow marrying each other. Which simply as a side note seems unfair and even degrading to John seeing as he is 37, but I can more easily understand Joey seeing as she is only 23. Her being 23 doesn’t give them much credit though because even today people of that age marrying would not be totally uncommon and especially in the 1960s it would almost be considered common. How the ageism returns from the young generation back up towards the older one is how each of them deal with it. I believe Joey and John are on two polar extremes of how not to deal with the situation. Joey wants to parade right in and expects zero opposition and if I was a father it would scare me too. John on the other hand wanted to simply never tell them face to face. A middle ground of honesty and reservation could have been made to make the situation go much more smoothly. They could have told them beforehand the whole scenario, or just waited a few weeks to let the parents become more comfortable I do not understand why they wanted to marry so quickly. Loving someone is one thing, but causing all of the hassle that they did just for a label is strange to me . -twentyfourframes012
I agree with this and I felt the same way because at the beginning when the daughters father started to get know the son, he seemed to be more and more okay with it. As the movie progressed he seemed to fade away from this idea and his emotions got the best of him. The mother at first was frightened by the idea and I felt she was strongly against it but I feel what changed her mind was how the son made the daughter feel and how they taught the idea that there was nothing wrong with being another color so she was just going and picking off of what her parents taught her. Mrbubby012
I agree with all what you have said. It looks like even John the doctor is not ready to get married as Joey. Joey is trying to push everything so quickly without thinking about the consequences. The consequences if that marriage didn't last because of a lot of reason one of them is the year gap between John and Joey and at the point who will face those consequences! Thank you for your thoughts! POINTOFVIEW012
This scene in the movie was intense because the whole time the son was talking, I didn’t know how the father was going to respond. I never thought about life the way the son had explained it and how his father did what he was suppose to do due to the simple fact that he brought him into the world. This makes sense because if you’re going to bring a child into the world then you better be prepared to work your ass off in order to provide for that child and to give them a better life then you ever had. The way the son spoke to his father didn’t seem like he was actually mad at him but just that he was disappointed in the way his father was thinking that he still had control over his life and his decisions. The son said that his father would never know how he felt and how he thought which to me was saying that the son was saying how they are total two different people and they will both have their different views on the world and you can’t just change eithers opinion just because you’re close to them. Part of the movie wasn’t added to this clip but I thought it was amazing when the son told his dad that hi father saw himself as a black man but the son saw himself as a man. When he said that it really dug in deep to me because those words said back then still makes a huge impact now due to fact of how society still is. I feel people still hold onto this idea of what color they are rather then the person and gender they actually are. This movie was really touching to me because the couple never stopped fighting for what they wanted even though in the eyes of the older majority thought it was wrong. Mrbubby012
I did like this scene because as everyone else, we all had that conversation with our parents or with someone who is older than us. The old generation has different values and they see things differently and that doesn’t mean it is wrong, but it is because people do change, and the society does too. It looks like we all at point see things from different point of view because our values and the norms at that period was all about that regardless the matter. Our parents were raised in a way that is different than we did, and it will absolutely be different for the next generations. The movie did an amazing job of representing how things were changing at the period were everybody felt scared of the future and scared of what will happen next. I don’t believe that when parents get old they treated their children as they own them, it is more than they are old enough to see their children putting themselves in trouble so they always telling their kids what to do and what not. Because they think by doing the same things they did before, they are protecting their kids from changing especially that changing sometimes is not accepted for a lot of people. I didn’t like how the doctor talked to his father, for me this is wrong and unacceptable. I believe if one has a different point of view, one needs to talk and respect other’s view and try to convince them not pointing their finger and screaming the way he did. I understand that as human being we all have the rights to do what we want to do. However, what if our behavior and our choices hurt other’s feeling and do nothing than starting a war. I always ask myself why today life is getting harder is it because our differences or it is because we no longer accepting each other. We say that we are equal, but it is never the truth. POINTOFVIEW012
I agree, opinions change with time and society goes with those opinions. I had my disagreements with my parents and like you said we have those times in our life. In this case I can see how someone can get agitated with their kid when things don’t go the way they wanted it to. Parents put a lot into raising a child, there opinions are not always right but never the less they still have them and cases like this happen. Parents do just want to protect us like you said. It’s interesting what you pointed out, are we accepting each other or hiding within our beliefs.`pj012
I find it odd that the father starts to speak out about how much he did for his son to be where he is now. I think when parents do all they can to give their children opportunities they get angry when the child does not choose the exact paths they believe in. After he did all he did for his child to be where he is at I think he does not want to account to his feelings about a girl if he thinks the relationship will be looked at negatively by society. I believe he still needs to keep in mind that this is his sons life and he is where he is now also due to his own hard work. Parent and child generations always differ. Both sides get frustrated because they are looking through different perspectives. All a good parent ever wants is for their child to be successful. A lot of times if their child's view does not fit theirs things get heated because the parent thinks it will cause negativity in the child's life and all their hard work for the kid to be where he or she is is pointless. Even during teenage years sometimes I saw my parents becoming skeptical of who I date or what interests me and it would bother me but really they just want the best for me. It seems as if parents and kids will always clash back and forth because of the opposing views. Society is always changing and kids have other influential factors such as school and jobs that they cannot and will not think the same as their parents. That definitely seems it would be frustrating, I would see myself as a controlling parent in the future because all you want for your kid is to be successful and it is hard to see them go down a path that you think won’t get them there. gea012
I agree that nearly all parents want their children to be successful, usually more than themselves. Where the conflict begins is the path to getting there. A modern example of this would be the emergence of eSports, opening up opportunities for adults to make a living off of competing in video games. Most people now see this as "not a career" (simply our modern societal views), but I doubt the players themselves care. Ninja, a streamer, makes nearly a million dollars a month off of subscribers and endorsements, yet society still would reject him because he earned it in such an unconventional fashion. The same situation applies in the movie, Mr. Prentice Sr. wanted his son to be successful and conventional (to a degree), and with the emergence of a relationship with a white woman, his expectations were completely defied, to no fault of anyone. It was best for him to think over his decision before replying to Dr. Prentice, though. -CSP012
This was one of my favorite scenes from this movie. It showed two viewpoints, a father and a son. This showed not only showed how age can either open your mind or close it do to set standard social norms. In this clip Mr. Prentice senior can’t get behind his sons marriage and goes on to tell his son all the stuff he has done for him. His son with a more open point of view goes on to tell his father that he did as a father should; I agree with his point. This scene illustrates the frustration of the youth with older generations. We can see this happen today with the gun violence protest going on. Many older individuals don’t want to listen to high school kids and high school kids don’t want to listen to older individuals. Although this is an extreme example it happens with each new generation. I didn’t want to listen to my parents and they didn’t want to listen to my naïve opinions; in my case it worked out for my betterment. But in this clip Mr. Prentices son has a point. Younger generations are more adaptable than older ones. Beliefs only harden with age and changing those becomes increasingly difficult as time goes along. This clip shows how we grow and become adults ourselves our opinions evolve and harden. In the beginning of this film John Prentice wasn’t for sure about his marriage but grew as the film developed to see past his former beliefs and stuck with that to the point of arguing with his father and proving his stance. It’s a natural course of events. With age comes opinion which harden with age and we stick to those beliefs. Sometimes they become absolutes other times we get proven wrong in a sense like Mr Prentice Sr.`pj012
Agreed! I practically said the same thing in my post. But I didn’t raise that point! It’s definitely important, though. It can be hard for an elder to listen to a younger and vice versa; especially if they have two strong opposing viewpoints. In this case, one has to be careful with the approach they take to the other and how to convey themselves in a certain manner. The film was very moving, and I really appreciate all the different messages it conveys and delivers between different characters and their dialogue and actions and facial expressions. It’s very well done. I definitely think everyone can learn something from it!
Another clear depiction of old vs. young, John clearly stands up to Mr. Prentice. In a way, I think a lot of the younger generation (mid-late teens to 20s) can relate to John. The rebellion/retaliation from a younger to an elder has increased rapidly, especially in that time when the older generation had a very traditional upbringing and passed that onto their offspring. I love that John represented how he felt without disrespecting his father’s place, though he very strongly expressed himself. He addressed his father’s concerns and previous statements, but also substantiated his own. I think this clip shows an important lesson of standing up for yourself and not growing up under someone else’s shadow. Be yourself and he happy being yourself, but also grow up in a way that’ll make your parents proud of who you are and respect them. And as for parents and the elderly, I think they should start to see what’s best for their children/grandchildren instead of imposing their family’s beliefs and traditions and staying stubborn with that. I believe his father felt strongly regarding his own opinions, in a very stern manner, but he saw what John was trying to say and he respected that, especially since he was a man now and he could make his own decisions, even if the father didn’t exactly agree. But he loves his son, and he knows his son loves him, and he also knows that he wouldn’t outright disobey or displease him. I really love the bond and trust going on between the both of them, and I think it’s encouraging for those who struggle to be themselves or have a conversation with their parents regarding their feelings. It’s always best to be completely honest and upfront and clear, like John was with Mr. Prentice.
What this clip demonstrates above all else is the older generation's tendency to completely ignore younger people's opinions. Prentice Sr. initially does not even try to understand his son's point of view in this situation. It was easier for him to simply say no than to consider another perspective. After all, I would imagine that once a standard has been set over a lifetime, it is hard to accept that it is flawed or could be improved. On the flip side, Dr. Prentice is very blunt and honest with his father. You can see how societal norms and expectations changed just in that family's generation. What Prentice Sr. deems to be going above and beyond, Dr. Prentice believes is simply a father's duty. Whether that be emotional support or making sure education is a priority, Prentice Sr. definitely did not grow up with the same mindset. Most likely, his father simply helped him become a man and get a job, because that was all that was available to them at the time as African-Americans. The ageism goes both ways in this scenario due to the fact that the difference in generations has a major difference in ideas and expectations. Neither is wrong, but both are correct! -CSP012
This scene introduced a concept of ageism that is one that many might not have been looking for. Instead of the younger generation chastising, looking down on, patronizing, or otherwise disrespecting the older generations, this scenario actually depicted the exact opposite. The father was diminishing the son’s right to say what he wanted to say an to express his opinion, simply because he was older. This is the exact opposite of what can be found in most of the forms of ageism that are common today. It was a highly interesting shift in observing types of ageism. In general, ageism can be found whenever someone treats someone who's is a different age or part of a different generation as lesser then themselves - there is not only one definition of the term “ageism.” The son, during his outburst, was able to explain the father’s logical fallacy in his argument by explaining why he couldn’t hold his son captive to his opinions and tell him the way he ought to live his life. He argued that since his father brought him into the world, then he was responsible for meeting all of his needs, just as he will be when he would bring children into the world in the future. The scene was actually quite intense, but very well captured, and highly emotional. The actual behavior of the characters in this screen also gives a good sociological example of what it is like when people get caught up in their own emotions, thoughts, and feelings, and ultimately don’t think before they speak. At the end, when the son was apologetic and reminded his father of his love for him, it was clear that while he still felt the way he said he did during the outburst, he didn’t mean to express his thoughts in such an angry manner.
What a great reply. I think you did a fantastic job encapsulating exactly what was in this small clip. I think that the way you spoke about the relationship between the father and son was great. It truly is fascinating and maybe even a little bit eye opening regarding the way that, although the father and son differed tremendously in their opinions regarding this marriage they also had a continuous and underlying respect and love for each other. The son was able to speak and share his thoughts yet still end his outburst with a speech full of love and gratitude that was heartfelt and kind. -THEARSONIST012
I do agree with what you said about it being the opposite of what is usually depicted. The father started going on about everything that he did for his son, so his son should listen to his opinion because he has earned that much. He made it very clear that he believed that John could not make his own decisions and undermined that fact that he should have a say in anything. Although there needs to be an amount of respect for your elders, it is also not okay to let them look down on you for your age. “Patriots012”
This is a wonderful scene I think. It really portrays the true feelings that fathers and sons alike share throughout the globe both now and in the past. There will always be struggles between ages and generations. However, this scene is a beautiful display of love that must also be present regardless of the struggles and differences of opinion. Both men share the truth that they hold dear toothier hearts and each have thoughts that may be very true and honest. Yet, this also really displays the letting go of the father to the son and truly accepting the choice that he is to make even if it does not go along with how he was raised. This is also a huge step out for the son as he chooses a path that he knows his father will not immediately accept and truly embracing the struggles that he will inevitably face as he opens this new door in his life. I feel that there truly are people and families in this world that remain in a similar mindset and way of life. There are most assuredly parents and children in this world that would share a very similar scenario in their own homes. I am curious as to how very different family life is now compared to then. I often wonder if it isn’t all that different. I would love to really study up on ageism as a whole and really understand it better. I applaud John for his strength as he decided to fight for something he truly believed in no matter what consequence might befall him. I also applaud him for truly speaking out against his Father. This may not always be a positive thing but in this situation I know it required much contemplation and guts. Through strong and daring people like John and Johanna we now have a society that will accept situations as these (we hope) without a blink of an eye. Although society isn’t anywhere near perfect it is remarkably more accepting then it ever has been. We should all continue to work toward a world that is accepting and kind towards interracial marriage. -THEARSONIST012
I totally agree with your thoughts on this scene! I really liked how it depicted both the sincerity and love that the father and son shared, and also how it showed where they different in their thinking and opinions on respect, owing, and what is acceptable behavior. The final few moments of the scene showed the two of them reconciling their brief argument by recognizing that they were father and son, and would always love each other despite disagreements such as this one. It was a very well shot scene with a lot to learn about interaction, and a beautiful message.
I think that both parties were wrong here. While the father definitely should not try to tell his son that he owes him something for raising him right, I also think that the son should be more grateful of all the hard work his father put into raising him. The problems with what the father did is that he was trying to tell his son how to live and what to do long after he had lost the right to do so. He was no longer supporting his son and thus should not feel as though he can control his son. It was his job to do everything in his power to give his son a good life after he brought him into this world, but that is not to say everything the son said was right. I think that the a child should be thankful to their parents for everything they have, but not owe them anything. If a child does not love their parents, I see no reason that they should care what they think. Parent child bonds should not be ones of owing something or not to each other, it should be a constant struggle to try to make the other people of your family happy. Both of them were wrong in not considering what the other person was thinking. The father should have considered that his son had thought through all of the hardships that he would face, and the son should have realized that his father was trying to look out for him, but both of them were to pig headed to realize what was going on and as a result they got into a fight. -DMPeschy
This was a nice scene. It was reality to me. Parents often times feel as if since they brought you into this world they own you. Even once you’re grown they still are controlling. We see this here. John is 37 and his dad is still trying to make decisions for him. Johns seem to have been fed up with this and will not take anymore. He puts his foot down. One thing that opened my eyes was when John told Mr. Prentice “You and your whole lousy generation believe the way it was for you is the way it’s got to be”. I can see that being true. This is a older man who’s 30 years older than his son still trying to make rules for him. I believe respect is huge thing when dealing with parents but at the same time I can understand where he’s coming from. Once you’re 37 almost 40 you don’t want to still be getting told what to do from your parents. Especially since you’re out on your own doing for yourself at this point. prettygirlhd012
In a way I thought john was being kind of disrespectful. But on the other hand I understood why he was upset. I think a lot of kids my age could also say they have felt this way before with their parents too. The age difference does have a hug impact on how they disagree with each other. Johns father doesn't agree either with him marrying a women of a different color. That's because his father's generation was thought that that wasn't ok. His father point of view was saying that he has done everything for john and he thinks that the situation is uncalled for considering how much he has done. John is right though. He is 47 years old and has already had a family of his own. His father said so himself that he's not going to tell john how to live his life but he's doing the opposite. John is old enough to make his own decisions even if his parents don't think it's a good choice. Going back to the age thing I think that how they also communicate shows something too. Johns father is being ignorant in a way because he is stuck in his way. In my opinion I think johns is being disrespectful because his father just wants what's best for him but john is being rude back. Today we can still see a lot of this going on. For example, my grandma still try's to tell my mom what's best for her and will try to tell her how to live his life even though my mom is a grown women. I think is always going to be like that though. Parents just want the best for their children. Even as we get older it's not going to stop. It's all out of love though.-ILIKETURTLES012
I agree that John was a little disrespectful to his father by the way he told him to shut up and things like that, but I also understand why he did it too. The age difference betweene the two of them did impact how they viewed things and others. John's father was telling him how to life his life and John did not want anything to do with that. He knew he was grown and wanted to do things on his own and make his own decisions. I agree that we see a lot of this in our day and age. - mommaj'skid012
When I was in class and watched this scene for the first time all I could think was, “Hot dang.” Being completely honest though, I do believe that some key issues were brought to light in this scene. With the definition of ageism being discrimination against a person or group of people because of their age, I do not completely think that this scene represents ageism completely. More so, I think it is a great representative of the mentality of a parent themselves. What I mean by this essentially is that, a parent cares for their child from the day that they are born. They make all the decisions for them as they grow up and decide what their child can and cannot do. As time progresses, this begins to change as a child becomes and adult and is capable of making their own decisions. Even though this is true, the parent still feels like it is their duty or right to instruct the child to live their life. The hard balance comes though when the child has to respectfully tell their parents that they have overstepped. I just recently had to have this conversation with my parents because of decisions and paths I have decided to pursue as far as school and my career go. They started in on what they thought I should do but then I had to politely tell that that, although I respect their opinion, that this is my decision to make because it is my life. I am the one who has to live with my decisions not them. I also said that there has to come a point that a parent goes from being a parent to being more of a friend. This meaning that they give their input, but at the end of the day they are more of a support system than anything else. It doesn’t mean that they stop loving and caring for me, they just express it in a different way than they used to. I believe this is exactly the issue that was being addressed in this clip. “Patriots012”
I have seen this movie before, but watched it before I was in sociology. When I watched it the second time in class many things made more sense. I was about to place terms and reasoning behind john's anger and frustration and how I believe what he said to his father was needed. He broke out of his norms and talked to his father slightly disrespectful. You could tell he had never done that before based on his father's reaction. He told his father his feelings and how he always said he did everything for him and used it as an excuse almost to get John to do what he wanted and pleased. John was correct when he said that he does not owe his father anything. His father brought him into this world and therefore is legally told he has to care for his child to his best ability until he is eighteen years old and his dad did just that, but John does not owe him anything now. He is a grown man and should be able to make his own decisions on who he wants to marry and when he wants to do it. I understand where John's father is coming from. This is a huge shock to him and his wife becasue John was previously married to a black woman and they had a child together, so John's decision to marry a white woman after that could be shocking to them. I do not think that it is any reason that he should not be able to marry Joanna though. I think that this opened the eyes of John and Joanna's parents that even though they may be ridiculed by others for their decision, they want this and that is all that should matter to them. - mommaj'skid012
I personally love this scene. John spits some real facts on his father. It truly is a parents responsibility to give their child everything they can to make their lives better. John also mentions how the old generation can never change and the world will never be freed of this viewpoint of non-change until his generation dies off. This is mostly true, although in the film the older characters have their minds changed and they make progressive social decisions. The breaking off of the son from the father is a common trope in movies, and this one is no different. Each movie is made with the current times in mind. At this time of social change when this movie was released, social acceptance was becoming the norm, and the law. The breaking off of the son (John) from the father (John's dad) is symbolic of the breaking off (or rebellion) of the entire generation of the 60's, moving forward socially and promoting change. John is his own man, and he knows it. He does not feel that his dad can still tell him what to do and he would be right. I find it odd that he believes this but still chooses to follow the traditional way of honoring the woman's fathers wishes and receiving his blessing. Maybe John had changed by this point in the movie and he and Joanna would have still fled to Geneva to be married. YoungPlug012
I liked this scene in the movie because I had never seen this argument portrayed on side of the child. As a parent it’s true that sometimes we think that we own our children, and that everything we do for them they should be ultimately grateful and obedient. But, the reality is that they did not choose to be here; we did bring them into the world and therefore it is our responsibility to do everything in our power to make them independent, upstanding members of society. Often times this is not the case and we do become dead weight on them, voicing our opinions in a changing world that we no longer understand. My son is only in elementary school and I can already see the difference in his generation compared to mine, and those differences make it hard to connect and be able to understand some of the things he deals with on a day to day basis. I am glad our society is not a society where we unquestioningly revere the elderly; we still hold them accountable for their actions and opinions and I believe that every person should earn my respect individually no matter what age they happen to be. If this movie was set in a culture where you always listen to your elders because they are older and wiser…I don’t think this story, or their romance would have gotten too far. The fathers would say their piece and everyone would go their separate ways. Especially if this movie had been a family that was even more patriarchal. Husbands did seem to get the last say but at least they took into consideration how their wives felt about the situation before they made decisions.
ReplyDelete--Burnsky012
I like how you connected this situation to how it would have went down if the movie was based on a different culture. I completely agree with what you said would be the outcome if it was different. I think that it is important to note what this scene says about our culture. I don’t think that John was meant to come off as rebellious towards his father in this scene, but rather well educated despite the age difference. Younger people seem to make their communication more direct in terms of how it relates to the actual issue. Old people were forced to think superficially their whole lives and that ends up blinding from being able to think deeper than what they have before
DeleteLayBae012
I like the reference of how your sons generation is so different from your own. I agree. It's insane what difference a decade or two in life makes. I have a 7 year old niece and their hip dance crazes are nothing like the hip dance crazes I grew up with. I have a 27 year old cousin who remembers the twin towers being destroyed and I have seriously no recollection of it happening. Like, I know these scenarios seem redundant and irrelevant but they are just little things I notice about the different generations and how growing up during one time period is completely different from growing up 10 years earlier or 10 years later. Society is always changing, the world is always changing. Ideas respected mutually by one generation are not always ideas respected by another.
DeleteHOOTIEGRL012
I like how you used your own son's generation as a example. The differences you see with just a few decades is quite eye opening. Its weird to think that in 50 years what our kids or grand kids will be doing in their world. I think of society as living thing that is always growing and trying new things. I await what these next generations bring to the table. -CUBSFAN012
DeleteI am glad that some parent said it because mine sure didn't. The fact is while it is true that we, as children, should be obedient to our parents, there comes a time when children become independent. They want to go off on their own and do the things they want. Parents and the elderly at that point, i believe, are guides and should not dictate to the former child as to what to do exactly but should be given the freedom to make mistakes and learn from it. -TheMarshall012
DeleteI'm glad I could hear this from someone who was a parent and get their side of it because I know and really understand the view of John because I don't have any kids. I think that there is a time, it might not be the same for everyone, that a kid that depends on his parents then becomes an adult and makes decisions by theirselves. I think I am in that middle stage of still respecting my parents and taking their opinions into consideration but I don't base my choices off of their opinions. The difference is that John is 37 and I am 18, so I feel like his father and his opinions are essentially dead weight on John and that his dad needs to realize that he's old enough to make and deal with the consequences of his own decisions.
DeleteThis scene from the movie was extremely moving for me. I'm sure all of us have had this type of conversation with our parents and if not, congrats so far but it can still come. However, I think that the reason it had such an effect on me would have to be because what John said to his father is something that I and many others may had struggled with explaining to our parents for years. In this scene, it’s important to note the thirty year age difference between Dr. Prentice and his father and how this affects the conversation being held. I think that when Mr. Prentice shot back at John when he told him to shut up, it highlighted his expectations for his son. He has the mindset of entitlement with his position as John’s father. He will be respected and listened to because of all that he has done for him in his life.I feel like this is true for many older people. They think that they have the right to manipulate and control our behavior since we are younger than them. I really like John’s part out of the whole scene. I completely agreed with him when he stated that older people try to force the younger generations to conform with what worked for them and it just won’t work for us. I think that this statement makes the current societal organizations and structure look really weak in terms of effectiveness. WE CAN DO BETTER and CHANGE IS GOOD. I think that it is fair to say that older individuals have a hard time with accepting change due to being socialized throughout their lives. It is significant to note that in this scene, the dad used his age as validation for why he was right and his son was wrong. I think that once we as a society face the fact that change is necessary and good for many reasons, we can start changing the expectations and standards that our older and younger generations have towards one another.
ReplyDeleteLayBae012
It is interesting how you mentioned that Mr. Prentice justified his actions by simply using his age. I believe that our society relies a whole lot on the age of someone to justify their actions. Many times, in American culture, we take the age of someone to be the single “explanation” need to rationalize our own thoughts. We do not need anything more! For example, many people associate teenagers with being the most deviant category of people. So, when a teenager does something wrong, even though it may or may not be wrong under the law, the deviant act is somehow justified because they are a teenagers and their brain is still developing. We associate many acts we commit in this way, just based on the norm of society. Because there is somehow a norm about what we do and how we do things in different stages and at different ages in life, we sort of justify a certain act as right or wrong in this way. MySliceofthePi012
DeleteI agree that this is a very relate able scene that shows both sides. It is hard to say that ether side is totally in the right because while the son should be thankful to his father, his father seems to think that that somehow means that his son owes him something for it even though he is the one how brought him into the world.
DeleteDMPeschy
I was actually shocked when we were through watching this film in class because it was one I actually enjoyed and could see myself watching again during my free time. I feel like a lot of valuable lessons are brought up here and brought to light. This clip from the movie in particular brings up a lot of interesting points. Here we are shown a father, aged and wise. Who believes that white people in today’s age are the same as the white people he grew up with. Which of course, isn’t entirely true. We know that in this movie we were past the civil rights movement according to said timeline. Which means, segregation was no more, and black people were becoming accepted members of society for the first time. The father, who is 30 years older than the son didn’t grow up in the same society. He and anyone their color was not accepted by the white community. They were treated as less, nonhuman so to speak, and unfairly and poorly. Now, no, things aren’t all sunshine and roses in the son’s generation, but they are better. Allowing him to look at marrying a white woman as something that isn’t completely unrealistic. Clearly society was evolving and they were portrayed as some of the first to think about interracial marriage. Personally, I can see both sides. I understand the fathers hesitance and resistance to willingly accept the sons proposition. White and black communities were kept separate for hundreds of years, and the divide was never something to be proud to be apart of. But on the son’s side, people are changing, becoming more open and loving, why shouldn’t he be able to love who he wants? Why should skin color even matter anymore? Making a fuss about it, to him, seems ignorant because then you’re just playing a part in keeping the segregation of black and whites. But to the father, he hasn’t yet forgiven the white people from the society he knew best. And I can understand why the characters had such an interesting debate.
ReplyDeleteHOOTIEGRL012
I really liked this scene a lot in the movie. There was a lot of weight and tension when the son’s dad brought him into talk. You could tell by the expressions on their faces they were both concerned with each other. I think that when the dad scolded John when he told him to shut up, it showed John what he wanted from him. He has the mindset of entitlement with his position with being John’s father. He thinks that, in my opinion, that John is still to young to understand his generation’s thought process. Older generations think that they have the right to manipulate and control our behavior since we are younger than them which is sad. I liked how John said that older people try to force the younger generations to conform with what worked for them and that it just won’t work for him. Overall I thought this was a very powerful scene that used all the built up tension from the movie and threw it all into this scene. This is a movie I definitely see watching again due to the fact that it might of been made in 1967, but I feel the message still rings loud in today’s society.
ReplyDelete-CUBSFAN012
This scene was incredible interesting for me and, I dare say it was my favorite scene in the whole movie. For the concept off ageism, this scene was an amazing scene for it because it do not only shows the argument of the elderly but it also has a compelling argument for the side of the younger generations. As a member of the younger generation, I feel his pain when he confronts his father on the issues at hand. The issues do not always have to be as important as marriage as the movie explained to us. The problems change as time goes on. I personally believe that my parents do not understand the problems of today as I am sure I will not understand the problems of tomorrow. I believe that all generations have the problem of ageism. An example I can say I have at home is that school is easy and we should be flying through it. The older generations also forget that we learn new things every day and that things are added to the curriculum that were not there before and things that were there have gotten harder or more complicated than they once were. On the military side, some of the older guys would say that “back in his/her day…” but modern challenges are just as hard as challenges of the past. The argument he make to his father is one that ever teenager and young adults want to say but usually never do. It is not that we hate the older generation and I am sure they do not hate us but we do not understand the challenges we both faced and are facing in our different time periods. These things can bee school, money, relationship, or, in the case of the modern day, who gets the TV. –TheMarshall012
ReplyDeleteWith generations constantly changing, I agree with when you said that the older generation does forget we learn new things each day and that they may not understand the problems we may e facing because of how society has changed so much. It's hard for generations to fully relate to one another and I think the clash between generations will always stay prevalent because new problems may arise in mine that are different than my parents, or vice versa, they may have been going through something troubling for them as a teenager but is a breeze now for me because of technology advancing even.
Deletegea012
I totally agree with your stamen. We still go through the problems they did back then. We still have problems with the older generations because some of them dot understand what we have to go through. However, we also don't understand what they can be upset about. Which is why our generation bumps heads with the older ones. Like you said it doesn't always have to be about marriage either. It could also be able school or money. For example, once we get older and start having responsibilities they sometimes can't understand how we can't afford thigs like gas and bills because things were cheaper back then.-ILIKETURTLES012
DeleteWhen we discuss ageism, we typically talk about the prejudice and discrimination of the older population, but the definition just states that ageism is simply prejudice and discrimination of people based on age. John treated his father somewhat rudely, especially when he mentioned that until his father’s whole generation is dead that the dead weight of them would remain. This may be based on the fact that John is closer to the prime of life where he is supposed to have power and have achieved many of his goals, whereas his father is aging and as we as Americans view it losing independence and power. I think based on the definition, ageism does not only go one way, with discrimination toward older individuals. In my opinion, Mr. Prentice could and did show slight ageism toward his son. Due to the fact that there is a thirty-year difference between Mr. Prentice and John and that Mr. Prentice is becoming older (67-years old) he, like many older people may be jealous of the younger generation of that of his own son. He may have a preconceived opinion based on how he was raised and how he lived his life when he was John’s age. Mr. Prentice basically tells John how he needs to live his life, but where ageism kind of comes in is if Mr. Prentice tries to say John owes him for everything he did to provide for him and essentially tells him how he should live his life. Where this borders on ageism is if parents demand that they be repaid for their efforts in raising their child, and the obligation for the child gets in the way and negatively impacts them. Although this situation is not as serious as the situations we see for the elderly population, I think ageism in all forms exists now as it existed back then in the 1960’s. We as people need to values all lives, and treat everyone fairly because we all bring something different to the table. MySliceofthePi012
ReplyDeleteI like your post because I enjoyed reading how you felt and viewed how John talked to his father. You felt that he was approaching his father with how he talked about his father’s generation that it is was dead weight. I agree that he was somewhat rude but I also, feel as if what he said was partly true and that it had to be said eventually.
Delete-IDK123012
I think in this clip of the movie ageism was showed both ways. Typically, ageism is prejudice against the older generation of people but in this situation, it goes both ways. At first Mr. Prentice’s speech started off not prejudice but as he talked more and more he referenced to how ungrateful his son was for all the things that him and his wife did for him. He basically said that he made John into the man he is today. While that might be true, John did a lot for himself to become a doctor with as much prestige as he has. The father, in all, makes a point that at his age his son doesn’t realize/appreciate all that they have done for him as parents. On John’s side of the argument, he definitely expresses ageism. He says that he is very different than his father especially being 30 years younger than him. The most intriguing thing John says is that his dad’s generation is so stubborn and think their way is the right way and will deny all other ways until they’re dead in the ground. This says a lot about both generations in this argument. I see how both of them think they are right in their own way but need to open up and understand each other’s point of view to solve this problem. I feel like John shows a lot more of ageism to his father’s generation than Mr. Prentice to his son’s generation. Mr. Prentice’s view on the situation is actually more centered around himself and his reputation. He understands that his son and soon to be wife will have problems with race but he is more worried about how it will ruin his son’s life therefore wasting his own time and money that he has put into his son for the last 37 years.
ReplyDelete-curlyhead012
I agree with what you said and my response was pretty similar to yours. I agree that both are right in their own way and that the generational gap has a major influence on how they feel, act and respond to one another. I do feel that both are lacking respect for the other and need to find common ground. I do know that back then, it was not common to have a tight bond with your father- it was just how it was. However, I got the sense that this was a bit different. Both families seemed to be of upper middle class and were a bit more refined in such a way that the family unit was a bit more functional. Love is there from both perspectives and I was relieved to at least see that. TRM-012
DeleteIn the video ageism both ways I think that it shows how parents install things into children and try to bring their kids up of the ways that they are accustomed to. There isn’t anything wrong with this as long as they are teaching the right things to the child and doing the best they can. I think that when the father went on about how and what he had to do for his son was a good thing and he should feel as if he accomplished and raised a good son, but as the son mentioned those were things that he was supposed to provide. Yes the father made sure he was well taken care of and made sure his son was given a good education but the thing the father should remember is that it was his choice to bring his son into the world and with that as the son said these are all things one must do as a parent anyway. As a child starts to see the world for their self, they began to see that everything their parents told them may not be the way that it actually is. Some of the things that children are taught is how the parents were brought up and things that they may have encountered in their life time that makes them feel a certain way about different matters. The son put in the work and time to go to school and become a doctor and an important person in society yes he would not have been in this position if not for a caring family but he himself had to overcome the obstacles that were in his path to become what he was in life. Parents all want their children to be successful but shouldn’t force their child to become who that want them to become or even who they should fall in love with as long as they are happy they should just give the support to their child. Just me 012
ReplyDeleteWhen this scene came up I was surprised to see the son speak up to his dad the way he did. I mean I would never in a million years raise my voice like that to my parents. Granted if what I was trying to tell them or get them to understand was important to me then I would stand my ground and let them know. Other wise I would have just saw their side of the story and agreed to what they wanted and not what I wanted because I believe that my parents know what is best for me and only want me to succeed. Though there is a point of time in life where you have to show and let your parents know you are an adult and you make your own decisions and that they can tell you want to do but because you do not live under their roof with their rules does not mean you have to follow what they tell you to do. Most parents tell their kids all the lives that they have to stand up for what they believe in but when it comes to the child standing up to the parent about what they believe in the parent is taken by surprise. They usually come to a realization that, that is how they taught their child to handle situations and they can look back on it and be proud that it was something the child grew up to use and understand in their own life and be appreciative that what taught was valuable. Overall even though it caught me by surprise I’m glad that he spoke how he truly felt to his father and expressed he thoughts on how he felt his father was acting, it was a nice touch to movie.
ReplyDelete-IDK123012
This scene surprised me as well. I didn't think that John was going to say that to his dad. That is an interesting situation that happens, when you do what your parents told you to do and stand up for what you believe in but they cant get behind that idea because it wasn't theirs. Its apart of the normal life cycle I believe. We have all had this situation at one point in time whether we were right our wrong.`pj012
DeleteAgeism both ways for sure!! Ageism is prejudice or discrimination on the basis of a persons age. Owe or own… Neither owns the other, but both owe each other. John says that until his fathers whole generation is dead and buried, the weight of them won’t be off him and his generations backs. I feel that is showing extreme ungratefulness. Yes, nobody has the choice of being born into this world. However, the son owes his father respect and his father owes him respect as well. John also needs to give his father the benefit of getting to know him on a real and personal level if he truly feels that his father knows nothing about him. His father (and mother) obviously wanted nothing but the best for him if the mother went without so many things just as his father walked 75,000 miles for his job. This is what parents to for their children- that is the parents responsibility. But on the flip, John also needs to be thankful for all he had due to his parents working so hard for him so he wouldn’t do without as well as could study in college instead of work straight out of high school. There needs to be common ground and full understanding as well as respect from them both. The father thinks he and his generation did it better while the son thinks he and his generation will do it better. A general consensus and unspoken agreement is what we all should succumb to and just accept the fact that there are certain ways we are to be/act with our parents/children. It’s the sign of the times and it’s the way the world evolves. What’s lacking is a mutual respect and thankfulness- but the love is there. You can most certainly tell that love is thick with John and his father, but the understanding of one another has not yet quite been developed and connected. TRM-012
ReplyDeleteI totally believe that what both generations were doing was shortsighted. Both were only thinking of ways to more benefit them and their ideals. What they needed to do was to look beyond these simple concepts and think of each other. John should not have tried to hide his girlfriend and shy away from meeting her parents same as Joey should not have assumed that parading around and acting entitled wasn’t going to start some bad blood between the families. An easy middle ground could have been achieved had they simply been more considerate to the family.
Delete-twentyfourframes012
I think that it is fair to say that in this film a fair bit of bad feelings are shared both ways between the generational gaps. In the beginning it almost seems as if Joey’s parents were going to be able to accept the proposition made by John and their daughter, but they slowly circum to fear, especially her father much more so than the mother. They assumed that the two were just naive and did not fully understand the consequences that would follow marrying each other. Which simply as a side note seems unfair and even degrading to John seeing as he is 37, but I can more easily understand Joey seeing as she is only 23. Her being 23 doesn’t give them much credit though because even today people of that age marrying would not be totally uncommon and especially in the 1960s it would almost be considered common. How the ageism returns from the young generation back up towards the older one is how each of them deal with it. I believe Joey and John are on two polar extremes of how not to deal with the situation. Joey wants to parade right in and expects zero opposition and if I was a father it would scare me too. John on the other hand wanted to simply never tell them face to face. A middle ground of honesty and reservation could have been made to make the situation go much more smoothly. They could have told them beforehand the whole scenario, or just waited a few weeks to let the parents become more comfortable I do not understand why they wanted to marry so quickly. Loving someone is one thing, but causing all of the hassle that they did just for a label is strange to me . -twentyfourframes012
ReplyDeleteI agree with this and I felt the same way because at the beginning when the daughters father started to get know the son, he seemed to be more and more okay with it. As the movie progressed he seemed to fade away from this idea and his emotions got the best of him. The mother at first was frightened by the idea and I felt she was strongly against it but I feel what changed her mind was how the son made the daughter feel and how they taught the idea that there was nothing wrong with being another color so she was just going and picking off of what her parents taught her. Mrbubby012
DeleteI agree with all what you have said. It looks like even John the doctor is not ready to get married as Joey. Joey is trying to push everything so quickly without thinking about the consequences. The consequences if that marriage didn't last because of a lot of reason one of them is the year gap between John and Joey and at the point who will face those consequences! Thank you for your thoughts! POINTOFVIEW012
DeleteThis scene in the movie was intense because the whole time the son was talking, I didn’t know how the father was going to respond. I never thought about life the way the son had explained it and how his father did what he was suppose to do due to the simple fact that he brought him into the world. This makes sense because if you’re going to bring a child into the world then you better be prepared to work your ass off in order to provide for that child and to give them a better life then you ever had. The way the son spoke to his father didn’t seem like he was actually mad at him but just that he was disappointed in the way his father was thinking that he still had control over his life and his decisions. The son said that his father would never know how he felt and how he thought which to me was saying that the son was saying how they are total two different people and they will both have their different views on the world and you can’t just change eithers opinion just because you’re close to them. Part of the movie wasn’t added to this clip but I thought it was amazing when the son told his dad that hi father saw himself as a black man but the son saw himself as a man. When he said that it really dug in deep to me because those words said back then still makes a huge impact now due to fact of how society still is. I feel people still hold onto this idea of what color they are rather then the person and gender they actually are. This movie was really touching to me because the couple never stopped fighting for what they wanted even though in the eyes of the older majority thought it was wrong. Mrbubby012
ReplyDeleteI did like this scene because as everyone else, we all had that conversation with our parents or with someone who is older than us. The old generation has different values and they see things differently and that doesn’t mean it is wrong, but it is because people do change, and the society does too. It looks like we all at point see things from different point of view because our values and the norms at that period was all about that regardless the matter. Our parents were raised in a way that is different than we did, and it will absolutely be different for the next generations. The movie did an amazing job of representing how things were changing at the period were everybody felt scared of the future and scared of what will happen next. I don’t believe that when parents get old they treated their children as they own them, it is more than they are old enough to see their children putting themselves in trouble so they always telling their kids what to do and what not. Because they think by doing the same things they did before, they are protecting their kids from changing especially that changing sometimes is not accepted for a lot of people. I didn’t like how the doctor talked to his father, for me this is wrong and unacceptable. I believe if one has a different point of view, one needs to talk and respect other’s view and try to convince them not pointing their finger and screaming the way he did. I understand that as human being we all have the rights to do what we want to do. However, what if our behavior and our choices hurt other’s feeling and do nothing than starting a war. I always ask myself why today life is getting harder is it because our differences or it is because we no longer accepting each other. We say that we are equal, but it is never the truth. POINTOFVIEW012
ReplyDeleteI agree, opinions change with time and society goes with those opinions. I had my disagreements with my parents and like you said we have those times in our life. In this case I can see how someone can get agitated with their kid when things don’t go the way they wanted it to. Parents put a lot into raising a child, there opinions are not always right but never the less they still have them and cases like this happen. Parents do just want to protect us like you said. It’s interesting what you pointed out, are we accepting each other or hiding within our beliefs.`pj012
DeleteI find it odd that the father starts to speak out about how much he did for his son to be where he is now. I think when parents do all they can to give their children opportunities they get angry when the child does not choose the exact paths they believe in. After he did all he did for his child to be where he is at I think he does not want to account to his feelings about a girl if he thinks the relationship will be looked at negatively by society. I believe he still needs to keep in mind that this is his sons life and he is where he is now also due to his own hard work. Parent and child generations always differ. Both sides get frustrated because they are looking through different perspectives. All a good parent ever wants is for their child to be successful. A lot of times if their child's view does not fit theirs things get heated because the parent thinks it will cause negativity in the child's life and all their hard work for the kid to be where he or she is is pointless. Even during teenage years sometimes I saw my parents becoming skeptical of who I date or what interests me and it would bother me but really they just want the best for me. It seems as if parents and kids will always clash back and forth because of the opposing views. Society is always changing and kids have other influential factors such as school and jobs that they cannot and will not think the same as their parents. That definitely seems it would be frustrating, I would see myself as a controlling parent in the future because all you want for your kid is to be successful and it is hard to see them go down a path that you think won’t get them there.
ReplyDeletegea012
I agree that nearly all parents want their children to be successful, usually more than themselves. Where the conflict begins is the path to getting there. A modern example of this would be the emergence of eSports, opening up opportunities for adults to make a living off of competing in video games. Most people now see this as "not a career" (simply our modern societal views), but I doubt the players themselves care. Ninja, a streamer, makes nearly a million dollars a month off of subscribers and endorsements, yet society still would reject him because he earned it in such an unconventional fashion. The same situation applies in the movie, Mr. Prentice Sr. wanted his son to be successful and conventional (to a degree), and with the emergence of a relationship with a white woman, his expectations were completely defied, to no fault of anyone. It was best for him to think over his decision before replying to Dr. Prentice, though. -CSP012
DeleteThis was one of my favorite scenes from this movie. It showed two viewpoints, a father and a son. This showed not only showed how age can either open your mind or close it do to set standard social norms. In this clip Mr. Prentice senior can’t get behind his sons marriage and goes on to tell his son all the stuff he has done for him. His son with a more open point of view goes on to tell his father that he did as a father should; I agree with his point. This scene illustrates the frustration of the youth with older generations. We can see this happen today with the gun violence protest going on. Many older individuals don’t want to listen to high school kids and high school kids don’t want to listen to older individuals. Although this is an extreme example it happens with each new generation. I didn’t want to listen to my parents and they didn’t want to listen to my naïve opinions; in my case it worked out for my betterment. But in this clip Mr. Prentices son has a point. Younger generations are more adaptable than older ones. Beliefs only harden with age and changing those becomes increasingly difficult as time goes along. This clip shows how we grow and become adults ourselves our opinions evolve and harden. In the beginning of this film John Prentice wasn’t for sure about his marriage but grew as the film developed to see past his former beliefs and stuck with that to the point of arguing with his father and proving his stance. It’s a natural course of events. With age comes opinion which harden with age and we stick to those beliefs. Sometimes they become absolutes other times we get proven wrong in a sense like Mr Prentice Sr.`pj012
ReplyDeleteAgreed! I practically said the same thing in my post. But I didn’t raise that point! It’s definitely important, though. It can be hard for an elder to listen to a younger and vice versa; especially if they have two strong opposing viewpoints. In this case, one has to be careful with the approach they take to the other and how to convey themselves in a certain manner. The film was very moving, and I really appreciate all the different messages it conveys and delivers between different characters and their dialogue and actions and facial expressions. It’s very well done. I definitely think everyone can learn something from it!
DeleteStarlight012
Another clear depiction of old vs. young, John clearly stands up to Mr. Prentice. In a way, I think a lot of the younger generation (mid-late teens to 20s) can relate to John. The rebellion/retaliation from a younger to an elder has increased rapidly, especially in that time when the older generation had a very traditional upbringing and passed that onto their offspring. I love that John represented how he felt without disrespecting his father’s place, though he very strongly expressed himself. He addressed his father’s concerns and previous statements, but also substantiated his own. I think this clip shows an important lesson of standing up for yourself and not growing up under someone else’s shadow. Be yourself and he happy being yourself, but also grow up in a way that’ll make your parents proud of who you are and respect them. And as for parents and the elderly, I think they should start to see what’s best for their children/grandchildren instead of imposing their family’s beliefs and traditions and staying stubborn with that. I believe his father felt strongly regarding his own opinions, in a very stern manner, but he saw what John was trying to say and he respected that, especially since he was a man now and he could make his own decisions, even if the father didn’t exactly agree. But he loves his son, and he knows his son loves him, and he also knows that he wouldn’t outright disobey or displease him. I really love the bond and trust going on between the both of them, and I think it’s encouraging for those who struggle to be themselves or have a conversation with their parents regarding their feelings. It’s always best to be completely honest and upfront and clear, like John was with Mr. Prentice.
ReplyDeleteStarlight012
What this clip demonstrates above all else is the older generation's tendency to completely ignore younger people's opinions. Prentice Sr. initially does not even try to understand his son's point of view in this situation. It was easier for him to simply say no than to consider another perspective. After all, I would imagine that once a standard has been set over a lifetime, it is hard to accept that it is flawed or could be improved. On the flip side, Dr. Prentice is very blunt and honest with his father. You can see how societal norms and expectations changed just in that family's generation. What Prentice Sr. deems to be going above and beyond, Dr. Prentice believes is simply a father's duty. Whether that be emotional support or making sure education is a priority, Prentice Sr. definitely did not grow up with the same mindset. Most likely, his father simply helped him become a man and get a job, because that was all that was available to them at the time as African-Americans. The ageism goes both ways in this scenario due to the fact that the difference in generations has a major difference in ideas and expectations. Neither is wrong, but both are correct! -CSP012
ReplyDeleteThis scene introduced a concept of ageism that is one that many might not have been looking for. Instead of the younger generation chastising, looking down on, patronizing, or otherwise disrespecting the older generations, this scenario actually depicted the exact opposite. The father was diminishing the son’s right to say what he wanted to say an to express his opinion, simply because he was older. This is the exact opposite of what can be found in most of the forms of ageism that are common today. It was a highly interesting shift in observing types of ageism. In general, ageism can be found whenever someone treats someone who's is a different age or part of a different generation as lesser then themselves - there is not only one definition of the term “ageism.”
ReplyDeleteThe son, during his outburst, was able to explain the father’s logical fallacy in his argument by explaining why he couldn’t hold his son captive to his opinions and tell him the way he ought to live his life. He argued that since his father brought him into the world, then he was responsible for meeting all of his needs, just as he will be when he would bring children into the world in the future.
The scene was actually quite intense, but very well captured, and highly emotional. The actual behavior of the characters in this screen also gives a good sociological example of what it is like when people get caught up in their own emotions, thoughts, and feelings, and ultimately don’t think before they speak. At the end, when the son was apologetic and reminded his father of his love for him, it was clear that while he still felt the way he said he did during the outburst, he didn’t mean to express his thoughts in such an angry manner.
MAXIMA012
What a great reply. I think you did a fantastic job encapsulating exactly what was in this small clip. I think that the way you spoke about the relationship between the father and son was great. It truly is fascinating and maybe even a little bit eye opening regarding the way that, although the father and son differed tremendously in their opinions regarding this marriage they also had a continuous and underlying respect and love for each other. The son was able to speak and share his thoughts yet still end his outburst with a speech full of love and gratitude that was heartfelt and kind. -THEARSONIST012
DeleteI do agree with what you said about it being the opposite of what is usually depicted. The father started going on about everything that he did for his son, so his son should listen to his opinion because he has earned that much. He made it very clear that he believed that John could not make his own decisions and undermined that fact that he should have a say in anything. Although there needs to be an amount of respect for your elders, it is also not okay to let them look down on you for your age. “Patriots012”
DeleteThis is a wonderful scene I think. It really portrays the true feelings that fathers and sons alike share throughout the globe both now and in the past. There will always be struggles between ages and generations. However, this scene is a beautiful display of love that must also be present regardless of the struggles and differences of opinion. Both men share the truth that they hold dear toothier hearts and each have thoughts that may be very true and honest. Yet, this also really displays the letting go of the father to the son and truly accepting the choice that he is to make even if it does not go along with how he was raised. This is also a huge step out for the son as he chooses a path that he knows his father will not immediately accept and truly embracing the struggles that he will inevitably face as he opens this new door in his life. I feel that there truly are people and families in this world that remain in a similar mindset and way of life. There are most assuredly parents and children in this world that would share a very similar scenario in their own homes. I am curious as to how very different family life is now compared to then. I often wonder if it isn’t all that different. I would love to really study up on ageism as a whole and really understand it better. I applaud John for his strength as he decided to fight for something he truly believed in no matter what consequence might befall him. I also applaud him for truly speaking out against his Father. This may not always be a positive thing but in this situation I know it required much contemplation and guts. Through strong and daring people like John and Johanna we now have a society that will accept situations as these (we hope) without a blink of an eye. Although society isn’t anywhere near perfect it is remarkably more accepting then it ever has been. We should all continue to work toward a world that is accepting and kind towards interracial marriage. -THEARSONIST012
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with your thoughts on this scene! I really liked how it depicted both the sincerity and love that the father and son shared, and also how it showed where they different in their thinking and opinions on respect, owing, and what is acceptable behavior. The final few moments of the scene showed the two of them reconciling their brief argument by recognizing that they were father and son, and would always love each other despite disagreements such as this one. It was a very well shot scene with a lot to learn about interaction, and a beautiful message.
DeleteMAXIMA012
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ReplyDeleteI think that both parties were wrong here. While the father definitely should not try to tell his son that he owes him something for raising him right, I also think that the son should be more grateful of all the hard work his father put into raising him. The problems with what the father did is that he was trying to tell his son how to live and what to do long after he had lost the right to do so. He was no longer supporting his son and thus should not feel as though he can control his son. It was his job to do everything in his power to give his son a good life after he brought him into this world, but that is not to say everything the son said was right. I think that the a child should be thankful to their parents for everything they have, but not owe them anything. If a child does not love their parents, I see no reason that they should care what they think. Parent child bonds should not be ones of owing something or not to each other, it should be a constant struggle to try to make the other people of your family happy. Both of them were wrong in not considering what the other person was thinking. The father should have considered that his son had thought through all of the hardships that he would face, and the son should have realized that his father was trying to look out for him, but both of them were to pig headed to realize what was going on and as a result they got into a fight.
ReplyDelete-DMPeschy
This was a nice scene. It was reality to me. Parents often times feel as if since they brought you into this world they own you. Even once you’re grown they still are controlling. We see this here. John is 37 and his dad is still trying to make decisions for him. Johns seem to have been fed up with this and will not take anymore. He puts his foot down. One thing that opened my eyes was when John told Mr. Prentice “You and your whole lousy generation believe the way it was for you is the way it’s got to be”. I can see that being true. This is a older man who’s 30 years older than his son still trying to make rules for him. I believe respect is huge thing when dealing with parents but at the same time I can understand where he’s coming from. Once you’re 37 almost 40 you don’t want to still be getting told what to do from your parents. Especially since you’re out on your own doing for yourself at this point.
ReplyDeleteprettygirlhd012
In a way I thought john was being kind of disrespectful. But on the other hand I understood why he was upset. I think a lot of kids my age could also say they have felt this way before with their parents too. The age difference does have a hug impact on how they disagree with each other. Johns father doesn't agree either with him marrying a women of a different color. That's because his father's generation was thought that that wasn't ok. His father point of view was saying that he has done everything for john and he thinks that the situation is uncalled for considering how much he has done. John is right though. He is 47 years old and has already had a family of his own. His father said so himself that he's not going to tell john how to live his life but he's doing the opposite. John is old enough to make his own decisions even if his parents don't think it's a good choice. Going back to the age thing I think that how they also communicate shows something too. Johns father is being ignorant in a way because he is stuck in his way. In my opinion I think johns is being disrespectful because his father just wants what's best for him but john is being rude back. Today we can still see a lot of this going on. For example, my grandma still try's to tell my mom what's best for her and will try to tell her how to live his life even though my mom is a grown women. I think is always going to be like that though. Parents just want the best for their children. Even as we get older it's not going to stop. It's all out of love though.-ILIKETURTLES012
ReplyDeleteI agree that John was a little disrespectful to his father by the way he told him to shut up and things like that, but I also understand why he did it too. The age difference betweene the two of them did impact how they viewed things and others. John's father was telling him how to life his life and John did not want anything to do with that. He knew he was grown and wanted to do things on his own and make his own decisions. I agree that we see a lot of this in our day and age.
Delete- mommaj'skid012
When I was in class and watched this scene for the first time all I could think was, “Hot dang.” Being completely honest though, I do believe that some key issues were brought to light in this scene. With the definition of ageism being discrimination against a person or group of people because of their age, I do not completely think that this scene represents ageism completely. More so, I think it is a great representative of the mentality of a parent themselves. What I mean by this essentially is that, a parent cares for their child from the day that they are born. They make all the decisions for them as they grow up and decide what their child can and cannot do. As time progresses, this begins to change as a child becomes and adult and is capable of making their own decisions. Even though this is true, the parent still feels like it is their duty or right to instruct the child to live their life. The hard balance comes though when the child has to respectfully tell their parents that they have overstepped. I just recently had to have this conversation with my parents because of decisions and paths I have decided to pursue as far as school and my career go. They started in on what they thought I should do but then I had to politely tell that that, although I respect their opinion, that this is my decision to make because it is my life. I am the one who has to live with my decisions not them. I also said that there has to come a point that a parent goes from being a parent to being more of a friend. This meaning that they give their input, but at the end of the day they are more of a support system than anything else. It doesn’t mean that they stop loving and caring for me, they just express it in a different way than they used to. I believe this is exactly the issue that was being addressed in this clip. “Patriots012”
ReplyDeleteI have seen this movie before, but watched it before I was in sociology. When I watched it the second time in class many things made more sense. I was about to place terms and reasoning behind john's anger and frustration and how I believe what he said to his father was needed. He broke out of his norms and talked to his father slightly disrespectful. You could tell he had never done that before based on his father's reaction. He told his father his feelings and how he always said he did everything for him and used it as an excuse almost to get John to do what he wanted and pleased. John was correct when he said that he does not owe his father anything. His father brought him into this world and therefore is legally told he has to care for his child to his best ability until he is eighteen years old and his dad did just that, but John does not owe him anything now. He is a grown man and should be able to make his own decisions on who he wants to marry and when he wants to do it. I understand where John's father is coming from. This is a huge shock to him and his wife becasue John was previously married to a black woman and they had a child together, so John's decision to marry a white woman after that could be shocking to them. I do not think that it is any reason that he should not be able to marry Joanna though. I think that this opened the eyes of John and Joanna's parents that even though they may be ridiculed by others for their decision, they want this and that is all that should matter to them.
ReplyDelete- mommaj'skid012
I personally love this scene. John spits some real facts on his father. It truly is a parents responsibility to give their child everything they can to make their lives better. John also mentions how the old generation can never change and the world will never be freed of this viewpoint of non-change until his generation dies off. This is mostly true, although in the film the older characters have their minds changed and they make progressive social decisions. The breaking off of the son from the father is a common trope in movies, and this one is no different. Each movie is made with the current times in mind. At this time of social change when this movie was released, social acceptance was becoming the norm, and the law. The breaking off of the son (John) from the father (John's dad) is symbolic of the breaking off (or rebellion) of the entire generation of the 60's, moving forward socially and promoting change. John is his own man, and he knows it. He does not feel that his dad can still tell him what to do and he would be right. I find it odd that he believes this but still chooses to follow the traditional way of honoring the woman's fathers wishes and receiving his blessing. Maybe John had changed by this point in the movie and he and Joanna would have still fled to Geneva to be married.
ReplyDeleteYoungPlug012